2001 EC 300 to dual map CDI?

[forgiven]

I had purchased my 2001 EC300 previously loved. The gentlemen who owned it previously had done seemingly everything to get as much low end as possible at the expense of almost no power band.

How hard would it be to swap to a newer ignition mapping with the dual switch? I really like my bike and I would swap some grunt and chug for top end. I prolly have to swap out my carb too but I like the idea of a conditional CDI anyway.

The carb comment was because it looks like it has a divider plate and I thought he said it was smaller for more torque so...

Thanks

 

[krazy]

I had purchased my 2001 EC300 previously loved. The gentlemen who owned it previously had done seemingly everything to get as much low end as possible at the expense of almost no power band.

How hard would it be to swap to a newer ignition mapping with the dual switch? I really like my bike and I would swap some grunt and chug for top end. I prolly have to swap out my carb too but I like the idea of a conditional CDI anyway.

The carb comment was because it looks like it has a divider plate and I thought he said it was smaller for more torque so...

Thanks

I have the same bike and I'm doing the same thing, shifting the powerband up and going for more open class performance. I have done a lot of research and this is what I have come up with so far. The bike is at mechanic as we speak as I don't have time to work on it now. Should have it back in a week or so and let you know how it is. Anyways:

* Install CDI from EC/MX200. I am in the UK and found one used from the states. This should really liven it up and give more everywhere. If you can go for a dual setup then great. I haven't gone that far and I don't do tight stuff.

* Carb - I had to adjust float height and I installed LTR jetting kit. The divider plate only affects the low speed circuitry, so it is ok to leave in there. Is that the RB carb mod the previous owner has installed? RB installs a divider plate to keep the low end. Make sure your carb jetting is correct and isn't too rich up top (or too lean).

* Reeds - if possible remove the reed spacer, and might need a longer carb boot. Make sure reeds are in good working order and get carbon fibre reeds for top end. Someone else will need to clarify this and suggest the correct part.

* Definitely need a top end pipe - I have a DEP which is a high end pipe from UK. Other top end pipes are DOMA, Messico, and possibly the OEM pipe you may already have. Make sure muffler is packed correctly and in good working order.

* Make sure power valve is opening all the way.

* RB Mods - I am sending my carb and head in from the UK to RB. The carb will be bored from 38mm to 39mm plus other trickery, like the dividing plate. The head mod will increase compression which will keep low end torque as well, please be easier to jet. It is stupid good value for money, send it to him, unless already done.

* Remove the flywheel weight. Also, if you don't need lights, or don't need good lightning, replace 2k3 ignition with 2k2 igntion which is lighter. Not sure if this would be worth it though.

* Make sure everything else clean and in good working order, getting enough spark, good piston and ring, etc.

Let me know how it goes, might be able to compare notes.

And check out this link for someone who did the same: http://antithumper.700hp.com/gasserfly.html

Cheers

Krazy

 

[widebear]

Your on the right track but unless you have enough base gaskets to ensure that the exhaust port is fully open at bdc you will just have a torquey'r diesel. I did all of the above, black cdi, ect and it still did not make top end power ,until, I did the port timing correction. This correction will absolutely require a head mod.It should be noted that i would'nt hurt to retard the timing for more over rev, Blitzy allmost certainly knows the cdi function @ what rpm is full advance, so you could use a timing light. My feeling is that for static timing, 0 mm btdc would be ok.

 

[GMP]

That probably runs nice, like a 250 with more all over, not all low end yank. Did you make a plate or just stack gaskets? How thick?

 

[widebear]

I didn't make a plate , cant recall off hand how many gskts but head had to be cut a 2nd time because I lost so much compression stacking gskts. My 011 allready had the exhuast fully open a bdc but had an outrageous 3 mm squish clearence as well. It was a bit of a crapshoot as I didnt know absolutely how the new 011 engine would behave with the delivered port timing and the stock jetting being so far off, but I have to say after cutting the head to 1.9 mm, jetting and a small timing advance it is very impressive. Allmost to much in the dry mode ,that being said on a tricky hillclimb on rain mode it will still collect itself nicely in 2nd from near stalling rpm, my beta 570 will fall on its face sooner than this 300.The same hill on dry mode and the addition of a g2 throttle has me fighting to keep the front end down I'm at my 200lbs. My buddy who's 300 lbs had his fat ass smartly hauled up the same hill on rain mode and was thoroughly impressed , that says alot considering his reg ride is a 550 berge. Impressed enough now he's suggesting to get his kid who's on a pro circuit kx 450 f to make the change. As a final point it should be noted that the head mod is'nt what turned the bike into a fire breather but a nessesary solid foundation to build my prefered power delivary characteristics on.

 

[krazy]

Your on the right track but unless you have enough base gaskets to ensure that the exhaust port is fully open at bdc you will just have a torquey'r diesel. I did all of the above, black cdi, ect and it still did not make top end power ,until, I did the port timing correction. This correction will absolutely require a head mod.It should be noted that i would'nt hurt to retard the timing for more over rev, Blitzy allmost certainly knows the cdi function @ what rpm is full advance, so you could use a timing light. My feeling is that for static timing, 0 mm btdc would be ok.

Yo bear, that is very interesting, I didn't realize the porting was needed as well. I am not a mechanic, can you please clarify what I/we will need to do for the porting/head mod stuff? Is this a different type of head mod than RB does? What does the port timing correction entail?

I want to get this bike properly sorted and don't want to leave anything on the table. I will need to take the bike to mechanic and say "do this", as they might not be "ec300-gasgas-with-black-box-cdi" gurus. I will go do more research but if you could help fill in the blanks it would be most appreciated. I have noticed your great posts on this forum over the past year or so I have been reading. This type of information is gold, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience.

 

[widebear]

ITs not all that difficult. You'll need a good selection of base gskts, get two of each thickness they'r cheap. Remove cylinder add extra gskts to raise cylinder untill exhaust port is allmost completly open @ b.d.c, Measure squish as per RBD , you'll need play dough as there is no solder that is thick enough. With those specs in place send the head to Ron for correction. I personaly would keep the squish between 1.75-1.9 mm, the reason for this is , if you find the power to peaky you can allways remove a gskt without exceeding the pump gas compression requirments. May as well have him do your carb while your at it. Good Luck and hang on.

 

[mrkartoom]

Interesting stuff. Do you guys need to run race fuel after the RB head mod?

 

[GMP]

You specify original compression and desired fuel use and he sets dome volume to suit after the squish adjustment. About 200 PSI is tops for pump gas. Stock 300s usually run around 180 PSI.

 

[forgiven]

I seen that original article before. Looked for a DOMA pipe in the USA and couldn't find any TOP END pipe for the 01 in the USA...perhaps I was just looking in the wrong spots.

 

[krazy]

I seen that original article before. Looked for a DOMA pipe in the USA and couldn't find any TOP END pipe for the 01 in the USA...perhaps I was just looking in the wrong spots.

Post a question in the engine section, surely someone can recommend a good top end pipe.

 

[krazy]

ITs not all that difficult. You'll need a good selection of base gskts, get two of each thickness they'r cheap. Remove cylinder add extra gskts to raise cylinder untill exhaust port is allmost completly open @ b.d.c, Measure squish as per RBD , you'll need play dough as there is no solder that is thick enough. With those specs in place send the head to Ron for correction. I personaly would keep the squish between 1.75-1.9 mm, the reason for this is , if you find the power to peaky you can allways remove a gskt without exceeding the pump gas compression requirments. May as well have him do your carb while your at it. Good Luck and hang on.

That's great, thanks. So there isn't an issue with using multiple gaskets instead of a spacer or something? Do you need to use some gasket sealer or yamalube in between each layer?

I take it I remove the cylinder, add more gaskets, tighten it back down and with the pipe removed look to see that I can't view the piston at bdc (the top of the piston should be just below the port)? Will this make extremely peaky? Or should the piston be 1mm above the bottom of the port as a compromise????

 

[widebear]

If you handle the gaskets very carfully after determining the correct combination you can use permatex copper spray gskt and coat all sides before restacking for final assembly. just make sure you give them at least an hour to dry before handling.

 

[widebear]

Post a question in the engine section, surely someone can recommend a good top end pipe.

Stock pipes can be modified for top end power. Not really practical but for somebody who really wants to do it.

 

[forgiven]

Was looking for a fairly cost effective solution.

 

[krazy]

It should be noted that i would'nt hurt to retard the timing for more over rev, Blitzy allmost certainly knows the cdi function @ what rpm is full advance, so you could use a timing light. My feeling is that for static timing, 0 mm btdc would be ok.

I didn't know you could adjust the timing of the cdi boxes. I'm guessing a timing in between the original ec300 and black cdi box would be a good compromise for better top end with good mid range?

Could you just advance the timing of the stock cdi? I take it I need to retard the timing of the black cdi unit. Are the only differences between the boxes the timing advance?

For anyone else wanting to read up on CDI - http://www.vespamaintenance.com/elec/cdiwork/

 

[blitz11]

With the stock box, you can only change the static timing. If you change the static timing by one degree, you change the entire timing map by 1 degree.

blitz

 

[GMP]

Wait for the "Blitz Box".

What do you think Craig? Has a good ring to it!

 

[blitz11]

It does have a nice ring to it. You might have a future in marketing if your engineering gig doesn't work out!

I finished the Rev 0.0 circuit board design tonight (I have to check it tomorrow when I am fresh). Before I send it off, I need to wirewrap one and have it running in the bike to convince myself that it works. Then finalize connectors. That's my plan for this week. Well, that and making sure my USB to RS232 cable works like it should.

I am not a circuit board guy at all, so this has been a bit of a learning curve. I tested a few PCB/Schematic design tools, and found one which is OK. (But still not great.) I'm better at having people do this for me, but we're not at work, so.....

If the breadboard works well, i might redesign to go surface mount, and have someone populate the boards for me. Time will tell.

I am done with the First Robotics deal and mentoring the 8'th grader, so perhaps this will become more expeditious.

blitz