450 kick start

[gibbo450]

hellow everybody i am just about to buy a 04 450fse but the previous owner has higlighted a fault it starts ok on the electric button but refuses to start by kick anybody else had this problem as its usually the opposite fault i did think it may be a weak spark but i do want to sus this out now.
thanks mark

 

[west aussie gas 450]

kick start 450

I had trouble with my new 450fse 06 from the start, could not kick start it to save me so i spent one sunday when bike was hot an got it going after a lot of abuse from my mates but even now still have probs when bike is cold nil when bike is hot strange but it works for me man.

 

[drzdemon]

Nearly everyone has problems starting their 450 FSE's. They're great bikes once you get them started, IF you can get them started.

 

[bergerhag]

I have a -05, i have managed to kick start it once, when hot. Cold, never.

Is there an automatic decompression that engages badly?
It feels like the gearing of the kick start doesn't move the piston more than half a stroke..

I will ask my dealer to convey this question to the swedish importers.

 

[Nick]

We've modified all the 05 450's we sold by taking .005 off of the decompressor as i was told by the engineer. Helps starting immensly.

 

[bergerhag]

We've modified all the 05 450's we sold by taking .005 off of the decompressor as i was told by the engineer. Helps starting immensly.

Can you describe this procedure in more detail?
My dealer talked to the swedish importer, but they did not know this.

 

[Nick]

You take the cam out and take .005 off of the decomp where it pushes the vavle open. It raises the cranking pressure.

 

[bergerhag]

Take off as in 'grind off' ?

 

[anathema]

How do you do this with any precision? Have to take it to a mill?

What shape does it get ground off as..can you just do it flat?

I guess maybe I should take it to a machine shop if i want to do this.

 

[mike989]

Nick,

I'm down here in Vegas. I have an 03 that I've been able to kick start a couple of times cold. I ended up changing to an 04 cam and starter which helped a ton with the button. Lowered my cranking compression from 105lb's to about 82lb's give or take a few.
I've found short, like 3 second burst on the button makes a big difference in the success of starting 4-T Gas Gas bikes. Unsuccessful the first two or three times, turn the key off for 10 seconds or so. Hit the button again, it'll start. I also think the trim needs to be set correctly. For Vegas, 2300 ft in elevation, It starts easier in the 35 to 40 range. I have a 4T 04 quad that stalls at slow speeds or idle all the time unless the trim is set in the 35-40 range.
So, now I have an 03 cam sitting around. Have you personaly modded a cam for lower cranking compression? I though you had to add more metal to the decompression dimple?
A set of nice digtial side by side photos would be cool.
Hope I didn't hijack the thread with my old FSE story.
Mike.

 

[anathema]

Mike I think he is saying it starts better with MORE cranking compression, achieved by milling off 0.005 inches off the decompressor lobe of the cam.

 

[mike989]

Yeah, That would be much easier than adding material to the dimple.
I found on my old FSE the lower the cranking compression, to point of course, let the motor spin a litte quicker and fired easier.
My situation is like comparing apples to oranges, four years of advanced technology.

 

[Metalefty]

Nearly everyone has problems starting their 450 FSE's. They're great bikes once you get them started, IF you can get them started.

lol...never had a problem here and I'm pretty sure that not nearly everyone of them has starting problems. Maybe '03 and '04.

 

[flybars]

Metalefty is right. The '03 and '04 have auto camchain tensioners that are way too tight. The DRZ 400's have had same problem. Do a search here and U will find a machinest who makes a manual cam chain tensioner for the '03 and '04 FSE's which rememdies the hard starting. U give the chain a little slack and the starter turns over much easier. From '05 on this has been remedied. As far as the kickstart problem, Nick has the '05 FSE also. Grinding .005 off the exhaust cam decomp. might only work on the '05. Better have Nick clear this up. He's been very busy at this time due to new ventures etc. and it might take him awhile to get back. But he's been a great help to me and other FSE owners. Thanks, Bob

 

[bergerhag]

Finally beaten my kickstart monster

Yep, I finally mastered the FSE kick start procedure. It rocks.

Feels really good to know that a fading battery won't stop me.

OK, here's what I do:

* Stand on the pegs, bike supported somehow. A tree at the bar end?
* Ignition Off
* Slowly kick until TDC. You'll feel it. Press on, just past the compression point. It'll kinda klick. I think its the camshafts positions that makes the distinct feeling(Anyone with english as their native lang. can perhaps fill in here.)
* Ignition On
* Let the kick lever return to its highest position, and take up the slack.
*Now kick the hardest you can, like you're the one sending the space shuttle on its way. KICK!!!

Works every time, hot or cold.

If you should fail, turn ignition off and kick it full stroke a couple of times with throttle fully open. Then back at the top of my list.

 

[cobrad]

bergerhag, out of curiosity, what year is your bike?

 

[bergerhag]

bergerhag, out of curiosity, what year is your bike?

It's a '05.

 

[bergerhag]

Has any other FSE'ers had any success with my kick start procedure?

 

[INABIL]

That is what I also heard, somebody adding to the auto decompressor.

Clearly my auto decompressor never worked and was wondering about a manual decompression lever.

I have an '05 kick lever advanced one knotch forward on the spline to give it a longer kick and installed a manual cam chain adjuster to loosen up the chain a little but haven't had the time to fix starter clutch to see if it'll kick start.

 

[flybars]

+
A friend of mine has recently installed the manual camchain adjusters on his '03 and '04 FSE's. He also replaced oem kickstarts with the '05 kickstart levers. Last week we were riding and his battery is shot and needs to be replaced. He was able to kick start his '04 every time thru-out the whole day! There are previous posts on this subject and phone numbers etc. to buy the aftermarket mcct. It really works!
As for our '05 fse's??? Nick's suggestion sound's great, but wouldn't know who to take it to around here. Also, maybe the mcct would work on our '05's?
Has anyone looked into shaving the exhaust cam?