Bar height: standing vs sitting?

[pscook]

Okay, I am looking at getting new bars to replace the current KX-High bars that I have. I feel that they push me too far back and I don't feel comfortable standing with these bars (just learning to ride standing, so everything I do feels wrong). I want low sweep to allow me to move forward and experiment with body position. One of the bars that I have investigated is the Trail Tech X Bar. There are two options: High and low (height), and sweep is the same between bars. Here's where I get hung up- The ad says that low bars are "custom designed" for the rider who prefers to stand, whereas the high bars are "comfortable" for those who stand. What's the difference mean? Why do lower bars help the "stand up and advanced" riders as compared to high bars? Link right here- http://trailtech.net/motorcycle_x-bars.html

Also, can anyone recommend a decently priced set of bars other than the Trail Tech? Their price is pretty good as compared to Pro Taper etc, but what is a good height and sweep? Note that I will have to buy a new set of bar risers (and new Scott's top clamp) for a conversion to 1 1/8" bars, so is there a decent 7/8"/22mm low sweep bar available?

 

[bowhunter007]

If you had 1 1/8th clamps I'd let you borrow a couple different bars. let me know. Mine will be down a while.

 

[pscook]

I do have some adapters that I can attempt to fit. If they work I'll drop you a note. Regarding the theory question, do you find that a taller bar hinders your ability to stand, or what other aspects of sweep and height have you noticed?

 

[bowhunter007]

I do have some adapters that I can attempt to fit. If they work I'll drop you a note. Regarding the theory question, do you find that a taller bar hinders your ability to stand, or what other aspects of sweep and height have you noticed?

I was very lucky...several friends loaned me bars to try, I went through 4, 'Till found what I like, on my bike. I run with ProTaper Contour(Carmichael bend), 'till last Sun. Now I'll be using CR HI bends after the reassembly. I also have some stock Hebo bars, you can try. They are similar to stock "Orange bike" bars, and may work for you. I have a set of gently used ProTaper Minis, that I ran on my KTM. I loved them, and they use a 7/8 clamp. I just happen to like a taller bar. I don't have a clue why it might hinder a rider. I stand while riding, more & more. I haven't had a case of monkeybutt in weeks.

 

[swazi_matt]

to answer your question regarding high bars, it seems that the pros like Chris Birch, David Knight run std bars, no bar raisers.

There are debates on this over all the forums, so dont attack me please!

Chris' reasons are that having higher bars throws your weight further back and affects the handling and suspension negatively to the way it was designed, so try to stick to bars as close to stock as possible

 

[3beejay3]

From what I've seen, it isn't a 'high vs low' issue, but more of a proper ergos & comfort issue.
Everyone is shaped differently, so they need to find a set of bars or bar height that works for them. I have a friend that is 6'8". He has to bring the height of his bars up, or he looks like he's trying to touch his toes when riding - not comfortable at all for him when he stands. Rik Smits uses bars that are almost like ape hangers on his bikes.
I usually raise the stock bars up on a bike about 1/2" or so, which seems to work best for me in all situations - I'm only 5'8", but I stand a lot so I need a little extra height to make it easier on the lower back. However, I can't raise them any higher, or it makes it too difficult to wind thru the trees; that's the real issue with high bars - you lose a lot of ability to push the bike down cornering in tight woods, higher bars make the bike wider in corners.
From what I've seen, a lot of desert & rally racer types put higher bars(or bar risers) on as they're not winding thru trees too much & standing a lot.

 

[GMP]

Also, if you look at all the fast woods guy's bikes, all their bars are very low, and not especially narrow. I'm 5'9" but have long arms, so I like low bars even standing. Tall bar/submount setups gave me strange tricep/elbow issues, likely from trying to force the bike down at an uncomfortable angle.

 

[pscook]

I am finding that my higher bars feel like they are pushing me back and I have to compensate by adjusting my body for balance, which then causes me to wobble. However, my lack of talent and skill may account for a significant source of wobble. But, it is interesting to see some of my issues validated (or at least mentioned). I hope to sort some different bars, I am thinking that I will get lower bars and just shim the mounts as needed. I believe it's easier to raise lower bars than lower high bars. And same goes for sweep (to a minor extent) as I can rotate the bars a bit to adjust sweep, and flatter bars will provide more opportunity to rotate without creating too much havoc.

 

[theboogieman]

On a related issue,

I only stand up when riding, so the first thing I do when getting a bike is to spin the levers down to follow my arm line. The ec brake and clutch master cylinder banjo bolts both catch on the bars and stop rotation past a point. (just shy of where I need them.)

Oh the joys.

 

[bowhunter007]

I am finding that my higher bars feel like they are pushing me back and I have to compensate by adjusting my body for balance, which then causes me to wobble. However, my lack of talent and skill may account for a significant source of wobble. But, it is interesting to see some of my issues validated (or at least mentioned). I hope to sort some different bars, I am thinking that I will get lower bars and just shim the mounts as needed. I believe it's easier to raise lower bars than lower high bars. And same goes for sweep (to a minor extent) as I can rotate the bars a bit to adjust sweep, and flatter bars will provide more opportunity to rotate without creating too much havoc.

If you get some 1 1/8 clamps, you can give my Hebos a whirl, as they are pretty low. I use taller bars, and roll them forward, similar to a trials bike. I like to go fast, as much as anyone. I prefer to ride technical sections, that require balance & control. It's very much a personal preference to me, for me. If I didn't like sitting now & then, I get a trials machine

 

[pscook]

If you get some 1 1/8 clamps, you can give my Hebos a whirl, as they are pretty low. I use taller bars, and roll them forward, similar to a trials bike. I like to go fast, as much as anyone. I prefer to ride technical sections, that require balance & control. It's very much a personal preference to me, for me. If I didn't like sitting now & then, I get a trials machine

I will take you up on that offer. Let me modify the mounts and get back to you.

 

[bowhunter007]

I will take you up on that offer. Let me modify the mounts and get back to you.

Not a problem

 

[eviljim]

Very interesting, I used to race schoolboy mx in the late 80's our bars where getting lower our seats higher. Look at them now and it's the opposite. When I started mountain biking bars where flat and narrow, then the down hill boys started to use vey high bars, xc the stared to use high bars and now the down hillers are riding flat bars.

I think fashion take a major part in people's choose of bars.

One thing I would say is take your time when trying them. even a small change used to take me ages to get use to.

Sorry about the spelling iPad and dyslexic not a good combination

 

[pscook]

I know for a fact I'm not going any higher, as I am at the limit loading the bike into the van. Bust your knuckles if you aren't attentive.

I am just trying other options, but some well-respected trail riders (wicked fast road racers with track records and championships) recommended I lower the bars and get the grips forward a bit. One mentioned moving the bars to the next mounting hole, until I pointed out that I don't have a "forward" set of holes in the top triple.

I will be in the shop tomorrow getting a set of 1 1/8 adapters cobbled together, then it's a matter of meeting up with Bowhunter to borrow some bars.

Thanks for the input everyone, it is appreciated.

 

[swazi_matt]

There is an interesting article at the back of the sept dirt rider (the one with the GG article) may answer some of your questions

 

[swazi_matt]

There is an interesting article at the back of the sept dirt rider (the one with the GG article) may answer some of your questions

 

[Tlineman]

I think its unfair to compare a bar set-up for motocross type riding to that of off-road. In moto a lower set-up would help to improve a riders attack position with the head lower and your back at a flatter angle. An off-road rider, even a fast pro level one spends more time on the bike and thus I feel a more neutral riding position that uses taller bars is better as its less fatiguing.

I'm 6'4" and have ridiculously long arms. If I jump on a bike with standard height pegs and bars, I'm way too hunched over and up to feel any level off comfort on the bike.

I run pivot pegs in low postion, have an EE tall seat, 1" bar risers in the forward postion and run Renthal fat bars in kevin windham 603 bend. I love my set-up.

Remember almost all bikes are built for a rider around 5'10"

 

[pscook]

I think its unfair to compare a bar set-up for motocross type riding to that of off-road. In moto a lower set-up would help to improve a riders attack position with the head lower and your back at a flatter angle. An off-road rider, even a fast pro level one spends more time on the bike and thus I feel a more neutral riding position that uses taller bars is better as its less fatiguing.

I'm 6'4" and have ridiculously long arms. If I jump on a bike with standard height pegs and bars, I'm way too hunched over and up to feel any level off comfort on the bike.

I run pivot pegs in low postion, have an EE tall seat, 1" bar risers in the forward postion and run Renthal fat bars in kevin windham 603 bend. I love my set-up.

Remember almost all bikes are built for a rider around 5'10"

I think that's my problem, I'm 5'10" and the bars just feel too high (KX hi bend) and back. I want the bars about 1" lower and a little bit forward, not too extreme like my old YZ426. That was great for supermoto, but a bit tough on the trail.