Handlebar pull back

[Bailey28]

I bought my '10 EC300 which had a set of stock bars on it, they have very little pullback/sweep, and they seemed high. I found a set of Fly Aero bars on the net for cheap so I tried them.

The new bars are 25mm lower and have much more pullback. Enough that I had to put them in the farthest forward position on the triple clamp. They felt comfortable at first but after today's ride at the usual area I noticed that the palm of my left hand was blistered badly. I also felt that the bars were too low when I stood up. It felt like I was using the base of my thumbs to hold on and could not get forward enough on the bike without feeling like the bars were in my lap. I may put the stock bars back on and roll them forward in the closest mounting position. The 64mm pullback weighted the outsides of my palms too much.

I did however notice that it seemed I could initiate a turn better, in other words the bike would "turn in" a little better.

Anyone here in the 5'10" range like the stock bars, or are you using something different? I ride light mx, woods and rock gardens.

 

[GMP]

Baily,

I'm 5'9", and could ride with a straight pipe in the clamps! Like you I hate sweep, gives me wrist problems. The closest thing to the GG bar I have run (for awhile until they cracked from fatigue) was a set of KTM SX bend Renthals. Very little sweep. I have the stock bars on the bike now with about .5" off each side.

 

[bchatt]

I'm 5'6, so a little shorter than you. I have the stock bars in the front hole, with about 1/2" riser (spacer). When I first got the bike I felt the bars to have insufficient sweep, but soon got to like them. I ride 90% standing up and find them great, especially in tight twisty stuff - the lack of back-sweep is much easier on the wrists when you are doing alot of full lock turns etc.
Take some time and try rotating them a bit at a time, until you find a spot that doesn't load up either the inner or the outer part of your palm. I don't wear gloves, and if the bars are in the right spot I can ride all day without blisters.

 

[Bailey28]

Well, it cost me $29.99 to find out that I hate the "sweep". I just came in from the garage after reinstalling the stock bars. I also cut off 1/2" from each end as I tend to whack some of the trees in my riding areas.

I put the bars in the rear hole mounts, rearward offset on the clamps too. With the bars in the upper holes, I cannot get to the rebound screws. It seems like the GG likes you to stand up and ride, sitting down is asking for the front to wash out.

 

[REVERUP]

I'm 6' and run the stock bars in the forward hole clamp mounts. I'm quite satisfied with their bend. I do roll them forward in the clamp quite a bit. I made a small special tool to adjust the rebound since the bars are right over the adjusting screws.
If your having trouble with the front end sticking when seated I would guess thats more suspension set up related than anything else.

Roscoe

 

[bchatt]

. With the bars in the upper holes, I cannot get to the rebound screws. It seems like the GG likes you to stand up and ride, sitting down is asking for the front to wash out.

I ground flats into the ends of 4mm allen key- this works fine for adjusting all clickers. I have it velcroed to my bars ( I fiddle a lot!).
I'm not sure bar position has that much to do with your handling problems. For me, washout is usually a sign I need to back off fork rebound a bit .... maybe?

 

[cbutler]

Front end washing?? Sag????????

 

[eff]

I just bought the TrailTech X Bars because of the lack of sweep. They feel good and can't wait to try them on the trail.

 

[widebear]

I just bought the TrailTech X Bars because of the lack of sweep. They feel good and can't wait to try them on the trail.

I just got mine, Xbars tall and they seem to be an exact duplicate of the early KTM Magura four stroke bend, which is a good thing exept now I've got the same bend in triplicate.

 

[Bailey28]

I wrote a review of the bike now that the Sachs suspenders have broken in. By wash I mean about mid corner, it may be rider error too. I have not deviate from the stock settings much with the forks yet. The shock is a different story.

 

[REVERUP]

You may not need this, but it's a handy quick guide to getting to the bottom of suspension quirks that affect handling. Typically Gas Gas' do better with more sag but a range from 105mm up to 110mm works good. I run mine at 108mm.

Good Luck,
Roscoe

HANDLING PROBLEMS

Legend
RD..... Rebound dampening
CD..... Compression dampening
CW.... Clockwise
CCW.... Counter clockwise

Jarring => harsh ride in the handlebars on relatively small but sharp bumps
Decrease CD (CCW) & RD (CCW)so wheel comes up and goes down faster
Try a fork spring with a lower spring rate for a softer ride

Packing => harsh ride in handlebars on larger bumps
Increase CD (CW) in the forks to limit the compression
Decrease RD (CCW) to help the wheel return more quickly
Try stiffer fork springs

Headshake => front wheel oscillates side to side, especially in soft stuff
Move forks lower in triple clamps to increase rake and straight-line stability
Decrease RD (CCW) in forks so wheel rolls over rather than plows into ground
Try stiffer front springs and softer rear spring to move center of gravity rearward

Oversteers => bike turns too quickly, goes inside the turn, front wheel knifes
Move forks lower in the triple clamps to increase rake, slow down turning
Decrease RD (CCW) on both forks to slow down the turning
Install stiffer fork spring so wheel won?t sink in and bite too much

Understeers => bike turns too slowly, drifts wide -- front wheel pushes, washes out
Move forks higher in triple clamps to decrease rake and speed up turning
Increase RD (CW) on both forks to increase ?cone effect? and speed up turning
Bleed air pressure in both forks to stop the front wheel from pushing
Try softer fork springs so wheel bites rather than pushes the ground

Kickup => rear wheel hops straight up, seat pops you in the butt
Increase RD(CW) to slow down wheel?s return after hitting a bump

Swapping => rear wheel hops side to side in hard to loamy whoops
Increase CD (CW), and/or decrease RD (CCW)to eliminate packing

Braking Hop => rear wheel hops excessively when braking for bumps or a corner
Decrease shock?s RD(CCW) to help wheel follow the bumps more quickly

Acceleration Hop => rear wheel hops badly on rough ground during acceleration
Decrease RD(CCW) to help wheel follow the bumps more quickly
If that doesn?t lessen the kickup, decrease the shock?s CD (CW)

Acceleration Spin => the rear wheel loses traction under heavy acceleration
Increase RD(CW) to improve rear wheel ?squat?

 

[Todd5774]

Good post Roscoe! I've just downloaded that and printed it out and it's going in the garage!

 

[Bailey28]

Thanks for the chart.. I agree with everything except the swapping issue. I have seen charts both ways that explain rear end swapping.

Some charts like the one you posted have it as
Swapping => rear wheel hops side to side in hard to loamy whoops
Increase CD (CW), and/or decrease RD (CCW)to eliminate packing

Some others tend to agree that if the rear rebound is TOO fast it will swap. I have experienced this. With the rebound at the standard setting as per the manual, 25 out, the rear swaps like crazy. At any setting less than 10 out it stays arrow straight. The trade off is turn in and trail trash. The fast rebound setting lets the bike turn in quicker and soaks up more trail trash.

The only way I can think of to speed up turn-in with a slow rebound is to reduce the sag to 110 like I had it but didn't like it as it made the bike really nervous.

I think the suspension is close for me and where I ride, and my speed. I am just picking on it a little now that it has broken in a bit.

 

[mtothef]

5'10" on a real tall day

probably more like 5'9" most of the time:

stock bars in front hole, bar mounts rotated so the bars are as far forward as they can go. yes, it gets in the way of the fork caps.

105mm rear sag, stock springs, 185lb rider.

fork caps level with top of triple clamp.

bike turns better than any other dirt bike i have ever ridden. it is magic as far as i am concerned, can do no wrong, take any line you want, scrub the front with total confidence, cut inside everyone, make line changes mid turn, square it off while humping the gas cap or slam it into the berm and laugh. but i am not about to set the world on fire with my riding prowess either, so what real fast riders may experience could be something entirely different.

it does feel a bit squirrely going fast in a straight line. gotta stay on the gas and clamp the knees. but the turning and tight terrain manners are so good i don't want to mess with things to cure it yet.

 

[REVERUP]

Thanks for the chart.. I agree with everything except the swapping issue. I have seen charts both ways that explain rear end swapping.

Some charts like the one you posted have it as
Swapping => rear wheel hops side to side in hard to loamy whoops
Increase CD (CW), and/or decrease RD (CCW)to eliminate packing

Some others tend to agree that if the rear rebound is TOO fast it will swap. I have experienced this. With the rebound at the standard setting as per the manual, 25 out, the rear swaps like crazy. At any setting less than 10 out it stays arrow straight. The trade off is turn in and trail trash. The fast rebound setting lets the bike turn in quicker and soaks up more trail trash.

The only way I can think of to speed up turn-in with a slow rebound is to reduce the sag to 110 like I had it but didn't like it as it made the bike really nervous.

I think the suspension is close for me and where I ride, and my speed. I am just picking on it a little now that it has broken in a bit.

Yes I have experienced that too. There is a fine line. Typically you will know how far you can back it off as it will start kicking you in the butt over abrupt bumps, logs etc.. when its too fast. As you know several factors contribute to an action. Everything is a trade off somwhere.

I belive this adjustment on the chart is refering to the rear end packing.Wich is described here....

Too little compression dampening can also give you a “hard” ride if you have a “soft” spring -- especially if there is too much rebound dampening. The soft spring, and less-than-ideal compression dampening, allow the wheel to come up too much when it hits a bump, and the excessive rebound dampening keeps the wheel from returning to its “normal” position in time for the next bump. After a series of bumps, the suspension gets "stuck in a squat” with maybe an inch or two of travel. This is packing, and shows its ugly face as harshness in the handlebars or side-to-side swapping of the rear wheel. Even with the correct spring.

Not sure if you experimented with moving your forks in the clamps, just a thought.

Perfection leads to confidence.
Roscoe

 

[Bailey28]

I moved my forks a little, up to the second line and the front again was nervous. I moved them back to the 1st line.

I think the bike is really stable where I have it now, high in the front and low in the back. I was just noticing that with the rebound set "fast" in the back the bike swapped. But it may be the packing issue you mentioned as well. With it set slow, the shock seems to not let the bike up in the back to initiate a turn without a lot of effort.

A lot may be rider technique too.... I'm not the fastest guy by any means. I am trying to stand more and the GG seems to like a standing rider better.

I will revisit the 110 sag number I had a few weeks ago and leave the forks at the 1st line for now.

If it turns in better like it should at 110mm, then I think I can slow down the rebound again to 5-10 out in the rear.

So far overall, I like the bike and it turns much better than my 450 ever did. I just need to fine tune here to get what I am after. Thanks for your input!