Has anyone got any experience with regulatorrectifier.com?

G

GGRider01

New member
Changed title: Diagnosing no spark

I think my stator took a dump on me the first day of my bike being street legal. The bike ran like a banshee, made no unusual sounds and always started first kick. Took it to the gas station during lunch and had to push the bike back to work. I even tried starting fluid, which I don't like the idea of in a 2 stroke. So my conclusion, until I can test further is that there is no spark.

I imagine a 16 year old 35 watt stator running a 35 watt headlight, my taillights and generating spark for the engine was enough to push it over the edge. I see here a 50watt 6 pole generator for sale from these guys but would like to know what others have to say about them..

http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/c...011-Gas-Gas-EC300-EC-300-Lighting-Stator-Coil
 
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I think my quickest route to get the bike running is to guinea pig myself with these guys. Will dig into the bike looking for any shorts to the frame and get them to ship me a stator if I can't get a spark.
 
I think you conclusion is well premature and incorrect.

Back to basics, plug out, kick. Look for spark. Always change plug even if you do get spark.

The older bikes CDI required no DC power. I doubt they have gone to a DC CDI. The lighting coils are unrelated so a frontier lighting Cook won't help ignition.

No to say a charge coil or pulsar coil hasn't gone.
 
That's certainly the plan. Checking for spark this morning.

No spark, new stator. Not sure what the rest of what you said means, but in my limited experience the last time I had no spark on an RM 125, I put in an OEM stator and everything was magically better again.
 
F5 is correct. There are multiple windings on the stator. The largest one powers the CDI (all others are only for lighting and have nothing to do with making sparks). As long as the flywheel turns the CDI gets AC power. The bump on the flywheel triggers the pulser so the CDI knows when to fire.

It works like this:
1) single stator winding creates power for the CDI
2) pulser signals the CDI
3) CDI discharges through the ignition coil
4) voltage goes to the spark plug and jumps from the center electrode to ground
5) fuel combusts

The simplest thing that will stop the system is a ground problem in the ignition circuit. This means a bad kill switch or kill switch wire shorting out to the ground (frame/chassis).

The next thing is a bad connection somewhere (wire connection or gound connection). Check every wire in the ignition circuit and the coil mounting bolt.

Unscrew the plug cap from the coil wire. If the strands look dirty, trim the wire back a little and screw the cap back on.

I would unhook the Black/Red and Red/White stator wires that go the the CDI. They come from the single stator winding. Hook them to a multimeter set for AC voltage on a low scale. Kick the engine over; you should see the meter respond as the flywheel magnets pass by the winding. As long as it does something, that winding is probably OK.

After that you start changing parts (coil/pulser/CDI).
 
That is the current plan - I'm just preparing for the worst case scenario. I'm working on the bike based on good weather and natural light around a wonky schedule so having my bases covered means faster turn-around when I get it the time to tear into it.

I'm betting it's something simple - but will be ready for the worst.
 
Verified no spark from the plug. Will have to borrow a multimeter to test where it hooks to the ECU/CDI.

Wiring looks good. Removed killswitch.. So I'm thinking this will not be a free and easy repair.
 
I pulled the plug cap off and shortened and screwed it back on. New plug. Don't have a spare coil to try. Pulled stator cover off, and noticed a bit of water(!) had accumulated as well as some corrosion. Pulling flywheel this evening to take a closer gander which won't tell me much, I just want to see how far this scale and rust has gotten.

Also noticed that kicking it no longer lights up the headlight as it used to - definitely suspecting stator.

I don't see any timing marks on the stator plate, are the screws just meant to be in the dead middle of their slotted holes?
 
Tried RM 125 CDI that is known to be good. The ignition coil on this bike is longer than on later bikes, and crossover seems to be limited to some husabergs and old KTMs (coil is Kokusan IG 3988, or ME25634006, KTM: 54739006000). See a pretty ratty one on eBay, I think I'll go OEM if I find that is the culprit.

The stator pickup is a P-01 and seems to be hard to source from anywhere in the US. Dealers could only offer me a complete OEM stator. The resistance on the pickup should be 100 ohms, so I'm going to get a meter and will find out quickly if that is the problem.

Anyone know what resistance values are supposed to be for the ignition coil? From the plug end to ground? If it is shot, it will be infinite, but if it is good I know there is some readable resistance and should be within a certain range - but that range is not knowledge that I possess.
 
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Stator pickup 97 ohms
Ignition coil plug end to white/bluestripe wire 18.4 thousand ohms
AC voltage at the red and black wires that power the CDI when kicked over.
New stator from regulatorrectifier.com... (old one WAS BAD)
No bad connections, no unwanted connections to the frame.


No spark. :confused::mad:


Exciter measured at the red/white and black/red wires was 24 ohms.. It's supposed to be 12.7. Would this prevent spark? Besides that, I've completely dissected the loom and verified every connection. No breaks, no grounds.. nothing! This is maddening.

Interesting to note, I got a peak voltage of 3.4 from the yellow lighting output while kicking like a mad man.. What is going on here?
 
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way too high if yer measuring it right.
Take the cap off and measure just that. Should be 5k ohms, maybe 6. Coil ht wire to input should be a small number.
 
Just a quick note about using a meter. Disconnect any device you are testing. For example if you check those wires when they are also hooked up to the CDI, you will be measuring everything in the circuit and can get goofy readings.

Trust readings when you know the single device is the only thing present. If something reads more than 20% different than specification, it usually has a problem. High resistance (megohms) is approaching an open circuit. Low resistance (less than an ohm) is approaching a short circuit or actual good connection.

A winding that measures low ohms could mean that it is shorting from being wet (or shorting due to failed insulation). Failed parts or corroded parts often go "open" (this is high resistance, also called "infinity").

With your exciter at 24 ohms instead of 12.7 ohms, it might not be sendng enough power to the CDI. Can you get an AC voltage at your single winding output? I've never checked one, but I'd expect to get maybe 30 VAC on a strong kick. That winding has fine wire to create the maximum voltage rise.

AC output at your stator yellow wire will not be very high at kicking speeds, but 3.4 VAC seems a bit low. I think about 10 volts is reasonable.

Keep in mind that measuring AC voltage depends on how good your meter is. There is quite a difference between meters. Auto ranging meters have a lag to them and don't catch short pulses well. A fixed scale type meter might be better.
 
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24 ohms on my exciter too

I have the same question on the 24 ohms vs the 12 ohms that the manual calls for: will the 24 ohm measurement at the exciter prevent spark at the plug?? If so, can the exciter be purchased separately, and is there a crossover part?
Thanks
 
From the 2006 GG workshop manual, all values +/- 20%:
Impulse Coil - red & green wires - 100 ohms (pickup sensor for ignition timing)
Exciter - black/red & red/white wires - 12.7 ohms (single winding powers CDI)
Charge Coil - yellow wire & earth - 0.67 ohms (lighting only)
Charge Coil - white & yellow wires - 0.16 ohms (charging, white & earth)

As mentioned before, I'm curious about the voltage produced by the exciter coil. I would expect that high resistance would produce less current in the winding causing lower voltage to the CDI. For creating sparks we know it's all about voltage.

It works like this (using approximate numbers):
1) the single winding creates 30 volts
2) the CDI steps this up to 300 volts
3) the ignition coil steps this up to 30,000 volts

To make a reliable spark takes a minimum of 15,000 volts so if the single winding output drops off, it's easy to lose the spark. I find it interesting that two guys have meaured 24 ohms at the exciter. Maybe it's time to try something else. Take a new plug and reduce the gap to 10 thou and see if you can get a spark. If so that may prove that there is just not enough output from the exciter winding to spark across a normal 25 thou gap. Use the recommended NGK BR8EG when testing.

The system on these bikes is a Kokusan 2K3, I expect most items would cross over with other brands of motorcycles.
 
lynngarner said:
I have the same question on the 24 ohms vs the 12 ohms that the manual calls for: will the 24 ohm measurement at the exciter prevent spark at the plug?? If so, can the exciter be purchased separately, and is there a crossover part?
Thanks
Click to expand...

Terminology might be messing us up, but the exciter is actually the special winding that is part of the stator. Replacement would be done by rewinding that post on the stator. Most of us would just buy a new stator.
 
Neil E. said:
ake a new plug and reduce the gap to 10 thou and see if you can get a spark. If so that may prove that there is just not enough output from the exciter winding to spark across a normal 25 thou gap. Use the recommended NGK BR8EG when testing.

The system on these bikes is a Kokusan 2K3, I expect most items would cross over with other brands of motorcycles.
Click to expand...

That is something I tried with no spark created. Tonight wasn't able to get outside to run any more tests on the ignition coil.

Oh BTW - My bike has the Kokusan 2k2. Looking to upgrade that later on.

As for the ignition coil ohms, it is in the ballpark for most automotive ignition coils, but probably too high for our use. Will test just the plug cap tomorrow - and input to the heavy wire (with cap removed)..



Ok - Plug cap reads 5.57 K Ohms. Ignition coil from input to heavy wire end (cap removed) is 12.84 K Ohms.. This doesn't sound unreasonable to me. However, looking up ignition coil tests for KTMs reveals something in the ballpark of 0.250 Ohms is desirable on this test. This will be the next part I replace. Looks like 2011 KTM 250XCF uses the same coil! Under part number 58439006000, Kokusan IG 3826. It's the same length, at least.
 
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Final update: The bike is running. I bought a pretty scary looking stator and flywheel off of eBay for really cheap. I now have a 2k3 stator which I'm excited to convert to DC using the method stickied in this forum.

The new ignition coil gives me the exact same readings as the old one :confused: but I'm happy to not understand why it works until it breaks again.
 
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