Help with Rebound 11 Zokes

[Tlineman]

I've spent hours reading about these forks. Comparing notes with riders willing to share their data on shims and such. I've taken my forks to my not so local suspension guy and had them revalved and resprung. He changed the compression piston and adjusted some shims i believe. I rode the bike twice, and took them back to him. I wasn't using the bottom 2 - 3 inches of travel and they felt very harsh. After getting them back today, and going for a rip after work. Now I'm using just about all the travel, but the forks still have that harsh feeling to them. I played with the clickers while on the trail, seeing what I could find and don't notice a difference with the rebound at all.

I believe I'm chasing a rebound problem here as everyone else seems to be and find that the forks deflect too much and don't inspire confidence on trail.

I pulled them apart and this is what I've found for the midvalve,

15 x 0.2
15 x 0.2
22 x 0.3
Piston
22 x 0.1
12 x 0.1
19 x 0.1
17 x 0.1
15 x 0.1
12 x 0.1

Based on what I can find on various posts, the 12 x 0.1 seems out of place to me. As a start I'm going to move the 12mm shim to the bottom of the stack, alongside the other 12. Does anyone have any other suggestions. I'd take the bike back to the suspension guy again but he's 2 hours away.

Thanks

I'm 210lbs in street clothes, running .46 springs and 7w Maxima oil

 

[Tlineman]

How do you measure the float as well? I also found that I have roughly 10mm of preload on the springs to so I'll be adjusting that down to 3-5mm

 

[twowheels]

Float can be measured (somewhat inaccurately with feeler gauges) or calculated from stack height and distance available for travel.

For example the Sachs forks have a 3.0mm tall land, but the piston eats up 1.4mm of that, leaving 1.6mm of travel. Stock mid-valve valving on the 2010s was 3 x 0.20mm, resulting in a float of 1.0mm.

In mid-valves a little goes a long way - you can go from totally harsh to butter in as little as 0.1 or 0.2mm.

 

[Tlineman]

to make matters more interesting I just did a tear down on the other leg and found different shims in the MV. The second leg has

15 x 0.3
22 x 0.3

vs. for the first leg

15 x 0.2
15 x 0.2
22 x 0.3

Nice..........

 

[GMP]

All that is is a check valve set up, the 15 mm shim is the same OD as the tap base so it sets the float. Shims can vary as long as float is consistant.

I had mine working perfect, then went up in spring rate and a bit of the harshness(not much) came back. I just buttoned mine up last night with some added rebound. If your a big fast guy with heavy springs you need help here too. I'm a 190 lb B, .44 springs in rocky terrain.

My rebound stack as of now, I didn't have an 18 so I added a 17:

22 x .1
22 x .1
19 x .1
19 x .1
18 x .1
17 x .1
17 x .1 (added)
15 x .1
13 x .1


I've played with MVs and this seems to work OK for me in rocky terrain:

21 x .1
21 x .1
19 x .1
12 x .2
15 x .2

The 15 x .2 adjusts the float on my fork to 1.45mm. This is pretty tame. A fast guy in more average terrain may want more. I had used a .15mm face shim but the .1 seems to hold up fine, unlike in the WP fork.

I get NO deflection with this setup. Whats interesting is I just started with the Go Pro and the video shows just how well the fork holds a line in the rocks.

I use Les's base valving. This Reb/MV stuff I have played with on my own for curiosity so I feel free to post it.

 

[Tlineman]

The thing that bothers me is that there is a 0.1mm difference between the float on each leg, due to the different thickness' of the 15mm shim. I am a bigger A rider, but I prefer to only ride slow speed super nasty type of stuff. I'm gonna re-assemble with the 12mm shim moved on the rebound stack, as it might be wise to take baby steps here. Should I add more shims to the rebound stack? Perhaps another 22mm?

 

[GMP]

Our riding is similar then. You will want more, trust me. The 12 is a crossover in what is a soft 2 stage stack. Your better off with a progressive single stage. Dupe my stack for starters, or at least as close as you can get with what you have. If you only have a 22, remove the x-over 12 and put it on the top with the other 12, like this:

22 x .1
22 x .1
19 x .1
17 x .1
15 x .1
12 x .1
12 x .1


This will stiffen the whole thing up a bit and should be an improvement. The main problem is HS, where the fork snaps back after a deep compression.

 

[Tlineman]

I just went for a quick ride with the 2nd 12 on top and yes, there is already a definite improvement here. I'll have to order another set of 22mm shims, and will try your stack configuration as well. Thanks!!!

 

[GMP]

That's likely true about the bleed hole difference, but keep in mind it'srelative to low speed damping like the adjuster. The harshness that Tlineman feels is from inadequate high speed rebound. I think he has proven this true as well by adding the additional 12mm clamp. I wouldn't stack up more that two 22s, but the top of the stack could use more. Bleed shim??

I rode today with my modified stack and the bike was excellent. It just needed that little extra to handle the heavier spring in its initial stages of rebound.

 

[gassi]

Hi guy's!
There have been a discussion about the midvalves and a checkplates.
If I convert the checkplate to a midvalve for my 45 shivers what I have to do?
I have seen in this forum that some of you have spring against the midvalve stack like a checkplate and then there is a cases where is a bushing against the midvalve stack.
If it's a right way to go to the bushing, what is the right OD for it? I think I understand how to calculate the bushings length...

 

[GMP]

I think the bushing method would be quite harsh in the woods. Usually you see that on MX/SX forks. All I have done is swap the rigid .3mm checkplate shims with something that can flex after it hits the tap. This is then setup with much less float than the full checkplate. Seems to work well in mixed conditions. The checkplate is fine in pure hell rides (slow rocks) but I like what I have now better when things open up and it still works great in the rocks.

 

[gassi]

Ok, thank you! That clarify for me what the MV/CP set up is all about!

 

[bchatt]

I think the bushing method would be quite harsh in the woods. Usually you see that on MX/SX forks. All I have done is swap the rigid .3mm checkplate shims with something that can flex after it hits the tap. This is then setup with much less float than the full checkplate. Seems to work well in mixed conditions. The checkplate is fine in pure hell rides (slow rocks) but I like what I have now better when things open up and it still works great in the rocks.

Yes, thanks for that, this little snippet has answered a question for me too. Always keen to see your posts Glenn!!