ISDE vs Timekeeper?
- Thread starter pscook
- Start date
I've never heard of a timekeeper but after some searching it seems that they involve keeping an average speed over the event. The ISDE is similar in that you start on a minute and you are penalised if you go through a checkpoint early or late. But I don't believe that they are concerned about average speeds.
If you get to a checkpoint early you can just stop a little before it and have a rest, have something to eat, refuel your bike or do some work on your bike until it's your minute. Then you can just push your bike up to the checkpoint, get your card marked, and then continue on to the next one. There are no resets. If you arrive 5 mins late to a checkpoint then your minute changes to that new minute and you continue on at that new minute. If you lose 60 minutes during a day then you have houred out for that day and have to stop for the day.
Plus of course there are a number of special tests every day that are timed to the second and added onto your score. The rider with the quickest time/lowest score at the end of the event is the winner. That's my understanding of how it all works anyway.
If you get to a checkpoint early you can just stop a little before it and have a rest, have something to eat, refuel your bike or do some work on your bike until it's your minute. Then you can just push your bike up to the checkpoint, get your card marked, and then continue on to the next one. There are no resets. If you arrive 5 mins late to a checkpoint then your minute changes to that new minute and you continue on at that new minute. If you lose 60 minutes during a day then you have houred out for that day and have to stop for the day.
Plus of course there are a number of special tests every day that are timed to the second and added onto your score. The rider with the quickest time/lowest score at the end of the event is the winner. That's my understanding of how it all works anyway.
Joey Phatone
New member
ISDE and Scottish Trials are similar type events in the sense that there is a course established along which there are "trials tests", "skills tests", or "special tests" that are scored/timed. The event itself is not a race. Points are calculated based on how well the rider performs on the special test sections.
A Timed Enduro is an older more traditional Enduro format that was used for decades where a course is laid out and there are "secret" check points along the course. The course is set up with speed changes throughout and average speeds must be maintained throughout the entire course. Those average speeds change throughout the course as well. Sometimes there will be easy sections with slower average speeds, and others more difficult sections with faster average speeds. Riders leave the start line in 30 second or 1 minute intervals in groups of 3, 4, 5 bikes etc. At each check point they determine if the rider is ahead of or behind the "minute" they should be arriving based on the minute they left the start line. Typical scoring is 2 points deducted for every minute ahead of time, and 1 point for every minute behind, thus encouraging the rider not to speed but to try and maintain the most consistent pace for each section between checkpoints. There are rules regarding check point placement etc, which helps the rider determine the most likely placement of the secret check points. An experienced rider in this format can keep time and maintain pace with a trip meter and a watch, however most enthusiasts simply buy jart charts which have everything calculated for them. You can also program times/alarms, and checkpoint locations into an enduro computer.
Modern enduro formats have been following traditional GNCC/Hare and Hound Scramble formats as they are simply easier and I suspect the traditional Enduro format was decreasing in popularity with amateur/enthusiast riders.
The Web Foot used to be a Timed Enduro format, and commonly regarded as one of the most difficult enduro`s in the PNW. The Cowbell was the more friendly event. The Spark Plug also used to be a Timed Enduro format. The first year I rode the Webfoot was 1984. The original course was laid out as a difficult one as it had been dry out for weeks. The 2 days prior to the event and the day of the event it poured, and the course was simply insane. I didn't finish it, along with probably 2/3rd`s of the riders that started it. 1985 was much better. I did finish but I forget how I did. My goal was to simply earn the pin for competing the course. This was long before they shut most of Walker Valley down for several years.
The last Timed Enduro I rode was the Spark Plug Enduro in 2005 I think, riding my 1983 IT250. Short course was somewhere around 50+ miles. I finished in the top 20 of the sportsman class, and rode the last few miles on a flat rear tire. My brother rode his 98 YZ250 in the same event and finished in the top 10 in the sportsman class. The attrition rate in Timed Enduros is actually pretty high.
I quit riding organized events for quite some time as people started riding "poker runs" like they were GNCC events, but wouldn't actually ride or race the actual competition events.
Just moved back to WA from the Midwest summer of 2015, and just picked up a 2013 EC300 R a week and a half ago.
A Timed Enduro is an older more traditional Enduro format that was used for decades where a course is laid out and there are "secret" check points along the course. The course is set up with speed changes throughout and average speeds must be maintained throughout the entire course. Those average speeds change throughout the course as well. Sometimes there will be easy sections with slower average speeds, and others more difficult sections with faster average speeds. Riders leave the start line in 30 second or 1 minute intervals in groups of 3, 4, 5 bikes etc. At each check point they determine if the rider is ahead of or behind the "minute" they should be arriving based on the minute they left the start line. Typical scoring is 2 points deducted for every minute ahead of time, and 1 point for every minute behind, thus encouraging the rider not to speed but to try and maintain the most consistent pace for each section between checkpoints. There are rules regarding check point placement etc, which helps the rider determine the most likely placement of the secret check points. An experienced rider in this format can keep time and maintain pace with a trip meter and a watch, however most enthusiasts simply buy jart charts which have everything calculated for them. You can also program times/alarms, and checkpoint locations into an enduro computer.
Modern enduro formats have been following traditional GNCC/Hare and Hound Scramble formats as they are simply easier and I suspect the traditional Enduro format was decreasing in popularity with amateur/enthusiast riders.
The Web Foot used to be a Timed Enduro format, and commonly regarded as one of the most difficult enduro`s in the PNW. The Cowbell was the more friendly event. The Spark Plug also used to be a Timed Enduro format. The first year I rode the Webfoot was 1984. The original course was laid out as a difficult one as it had been dry out for weeks. The 2 days prior to the event and the day of the event it poured, and the course was simply insane. I didn't finish it, along with probably 2/3rd`s of the riders that started it. 1985 was much better. I did finish but I forget how I did. My goal was to simply earn the pin for competing the course. This was long before they shut most of Walker Valley down for several years.
The last Timed Enduro I rode was the Spark Plug Enduro in 2005 I think, riding my 1983 IT250. Short course was somewhere around 50+ miles. I finished in the top 20 of the sportsman class, and rode the last few miles on a flat rear tire. My brother rode his 98 YZ250 in the same event and finished in the top 10 in the sportsman class. The attrition rate in Timed Enduros is actually pretty high.
I quit riding organized events for quite some time as people started riding "poker runs" like they were GNCC events, but wouldn't actually ride or race the actual competition events.
Just moved back to WA from the Midwest summer of 2015, and just picked up a 2013 EC300 R a week and a half ago.
Danj56
Bronze Level Site Supporter
New England Trail Rider Association runs time keeping events. You you have secret checks that you can't be early to and if so you get penalized 2 points for the first minute and 5 points for each additional minute up to 6 min then you're disqualified. ISDE you can show up at the check early and wait for your minute to come up as long as you don't cross the flags. Timekeepers you can't stop forward motion with in site of the check crew unless it's a Known or Start check. .
Joey Phatone
New member
Thanks for the clarification Dan. As I said it's been quite sometime since I have ridden one and I was never terribly great. I rode them for fun and the challenge of completing them. Since I was typically running behind my minute I rarely worried about "burning" the check points. hahaha
I have never actually ridden an ISDE/ISDT type event, but have followed Scottish Trials events as a spectator, as well as World Observed Trials events in the 70's when they were held in Gold Bar WA at Reiter Pit.
My parents both had RL250's and I had a TY80. Most of the families we camped and rode with had trials bikes as well, predominantly Honda TL's but a couple of Yamaha TY's too. We would challenge ourselves to complete/ride the same sections the riders competing in the World Championships rode, which made for some really fun stops throughout the day along trail rides. Stop, take turns riding and watching everyone try to ride ridiculous obstacles/sections and laugh at ourselves and each other as we had extremely slow speed crashes, dabs that became full on tip overs when your foot slips.
I never thought about it until a friend pointed it out as an adult, I guess my experience riding trials growing up contributed a great deal to my riding style trail riding as an adult. I am far from great, but I think I am pretty good, when I am in shape, and I focus a lot on choosing lines, the smoothest lines, with the least resistance, to maintain both flow and momentum. I suppose that racing flattrack also contributed a little as well.
I have never actually ridden an ISDE/ISDT type event, but have followed Scottish Trials events as a spectator, as well as World Observed Trials events in the 70's when they were held in Gold Bar WA at Reiter Pit.
My parents both had RL250's and I had a TY80. Most of the families we camped and rode with had trials bikes as well, predominantly Honda TL's but a couple of Yamaha TY's too. We would challenge ourselves to complete/ride the same sections the riders competing in the World Championships rode, which made for some really fun stops throughout the day along trail rides. Stop, take turns riding and watching everyone try to ride ridiculous obstacles/sections and laugh at ourselves and each other as we had extremely slow speed crashes, dabs that became full on tip overs when your foot slips.
I never thought about it until a friend pointed it out as an adult, I guess my experience riding trials growing up contributed a great deal to my riding style trail riding as an adult. I am far from great, but I think I am pretty good, when I am in shape, and I focus a lot on choosing lines, the smoothest lines, with the least resistance, to maintain both flow and momentum. I suppose that racing flattrack also contributed a little as well.
Similar threads
