Make a GG 200 as torquey as a KTM 200. Possible?

husley

husley

Bronze Level Site Supporter
Is it possible to tune a GG 200 to make it as torquey as a 200 XCW off the bottom?

Between the Wife and I we have had multiple KTM and GG 200s in the fleet but I always thought her GG 200 was 'flat' off of the bottom while my orange 200 was always pretty torquey.

Can one make the GG 200 have the low-end torque a XCW does?

Looking to buy a new 200 and really want the GG handling however I really want some low-end as well (I'm a trials rider at heart).


Thanks and Happy New Year!

J
 
Well, it should be fairly easy to get the low end grunt up since it already has a longer stroke than the KTM.

I would concentrate on two cheap mods, ignition timing and jetting. Try advancing it a bit and see how it feels. Keep advancing until the loss of top end is too much for your liking and then retard it just enough to get it back. Then proceed on to getting the jetting spot on. Between the two you can really wake it up and tune it more to your riding style. After that things start costing some money. Adding a fww, intake/exhaust spacers, a new exhaust pipe tuned for more low end, RB head and carb mods, Vforce reed setup, gear ratio change, and having the cylinder ported.
 
SS109 said:
Well, it should be fairly easy to get the low end grunt up since it already has a longer stroke than the KTM.

I would concentrate on two cheap mods, ignition timing and jetting. Try advancing it a bit and see how it feels. Keep advancing until the loss of top end is too much for your liking and then retard it just enough to get it back. Then proceed on to getting the jetting spot on. Between the two you can really wake it up and tune it more to your riding style. After that things start costing some money. Adding a fww, intake/exhaust spacers, a new exhaust pipe tuned for more low end, RB head and carb mods, Vforce reed setup, gear ratio change, and having the cylinder ported.
Click to expand...


Had not heard of tweaking ignition timing. Hmmm

Thank You
 
husley, please disclose year of bike,hours,mod's,and type of ignition??
I would correct squish and properly jet the 200,add a checkpoint pv cover
and leave off the fww. What silencer are you using?
 
Head mod and LTR needle woke my 02 up heaps. Moving the ign didn't do anything helpful on the dyno.
 
http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17772


I've owned 2 Gasgas 200's and 3 KTM 200's. The KTM just plain has a stronger motor. The Gasgas just plain handles better. Both great bikes and both have advantages and disadvantages. Like I mentioned in the thread above, my sons '99 EC200 has a nice strong motor. Even after changing out the 2k3 for the 2k2 on my '03 the '99 is stronger. With identical jetting, gearing, etc. I've narrowed it down to the pipe. Unfortunately FMF does not make that pipe any longer.
 
firffighter said:
http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17772


I've owned 2 Gasgas 200's and 3 KTM 200's. The KTM just plain has a stronger motor. The Gasgas just plain handles better. Both great bikes and both have advantages and disadvantages. Like I mentioned in the thread above, my sons '99 EC200 has a nice strong motor. Even after changing out the 2k3 for the 2k2 on my '03 the '99 is stronger. With identical jetting, gearing, etc. I've narrowed it down to the pipe. Unfortunately FMF does not make that pipe any longer.
Click to expand...

A DEP system did it on my WR250
 
My riding buddy has an 08 ktm 200xc-w and i ride an 02 gas gas xc200 and i wouldn't trade him for the world (unless i could sell the ktm after the trade and buy another gas gas :). We ride mostly tight single track but some wide open flowy stuff too. Although his bike is 4 pounds lighter you would never be able to tell. Something about where the gas gas carries its weight. He has been able to almost stay with me before on a yz125. On his 200 i think hes slower(although since he got the 200 i have also gone Tubliss with Metzeler mc4s which if you havent gone tubliss you dont know what your missing!). Motor felt no more powerful to me, in fact i prefer the was the gas gas revs out. I got the gas gas on accident but have fallen in love and just bought a 300 of the same year. Oh and my xc is street titled so i can ride on the 474,000 acres of Air Force Reservation that surrounds me. I love gas gas!!
 
If you do not opt for the head mod a cheap solution is to use a thinner cylinder base gasket which will advance the port timing and bump compression. Advancing the timing will in enhance bottom end to.

Unless you ride it wide open all the time, a 38mm carb is too large for a small cc enduro engine. I put a 35mm carb on a EC125 and a MC125 in place of the 38mm that came stock. With the smaller carbs they jet easier and run much cleaner/better at low rpm.
 
My 02 had 2 gaskets std I removed one which reduces the open duration making the ports open later so I wouldn't call that advanced. But the head mod is still required. If you get the squish close enough so it is working, the comm will be too high so it does need machining of the dome as well as a healthy skim.
 
I found this. http://polariswatercraft.com.au/basictwostroketuning.htm In general, if a tuner wants to adjust the engine's power band for more low to mid range he would do the following things. Turn down the cylinder base on a lathe to increase the effective stroke (distance from TDC to exhaust port opening). This also retards the exhaust port timing and shortens the duration and increases the compression ratio.....
 
Several good suggestions here already but I will add one that always works - gear lower. If you don't ride faster than 50mph I would suggest 12/50 gearing on a 200. 13/54 would be close to 12/50 but would take a longer than stock chain. Yes a 12 tooth cs will wear a tad bit faster but the wear difference is little enough to be a non-factor. Chain slider will wear a lot faster (with a 12 cs) if you run a loose chain.
 
Smartest thing said yet Gasser.

Z, yes retard is closer to correct. But they aren't really using a good description of what happens in a running engine. Not that it matters, and I'm starting to sound like a dick.
 
gasser said:
Several good suggestions here already but I will add one that always works - gear lower. If you don't ride faster than 50mph I would suggest 12/50 gearing on a 200. 13/54 would be close to 12/50 but would take a longer than stock chain. Yes a 12 tooth cs will wear a tad bit faster but the wear difference is little enough to be a non-factor. Chain slider will wear a lot faster (with a 12 cs) if you run a loose chain.
Click to expand...

Nope, I rarely get over 50 mph.....almost never. Rarely over 40mph. I like Single Track and I am a low/mid-range rpm guy with a trials background. :) I'm keeping my 10' 300 and making it my Dual Sport, the 200 will be my 'trail bike' . Last year on my 300 I lowered the gearing, added a PV cover and adjusted the squish, this took away from the top-end but I was just fine with that as it turned the bike into a tractor :)

12/50, okay thanks for the tip!

It appears I will be buying a 09' 200 with less than 30 hrs on it. It has the stock pipe.

Guessing these will be my mods for more low-end (if needed) in approximate order:

Ensure Jetting is correct/best for low-end
PV cover. -put one on my 10' 300 and liked what it did
Gearing 12/50 I guess. Maybe even lower?
Reed or Pipe spacer ....maybe ?
Flywheel Weight
Squish


Does the 09' have the rain/sunshine switch?

Happy New Year!

J
 
Also, make sure the power valve is correctly adjusted. I'd actually do this and check the squish measurement/have the head machined, before you start doing anything else.
 
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