Need advice While I learn

[12Bravo]

This is what I have;
Throttle Slide #7
Main Jet Unknown
Pilot Jet #35
Needle: N1EC

This is what is happening, sluggish on the bottom but hits hard 1/2+ throttle.
Throttle off idle 0-1/4 is ok, but not super crisp.
Have to turn the idle screw in to keep idle in N and in Gear. N idles high in gear idles slow, really slow sometimes stalls.
Throttle 1/4-WOT seems to be good.
Location: 1200' up to 3500' elevation temperature now in the 60-70 degrees F.
What I am looking for, more Bottom end and less top end. Slow trails and beginner rider, I don't need crazy top end!

Gearing is 12/48, plan to get a 13 and leave the 48 on rear, unless you all say that's no good. The bike seems to be set up for the track, I want to set it up for trails.

 

[Rick]

Ditch the 12 cs sprocket, opt for a13/50 or 51. 12 cs is a little tight, promotes unnecessary chain wear on the slider.

Try a 40 pilot, play the the needle clip, pull plug checks......I'm jetted "fat" on the bottom for less hit, more grunt.

The main 178?? Just a guess......

 

[12Bravo]

Ditch the 12 cs sprocket, opt for a13/50 or 51. 12 cs is a little tight, promotes unnecessary chain wear on the slider.

Try a 40 pilot, play the the needle clip, pull plug checks......I'm jetted "fat" on the bottom for less hit, more grunt.

The main 178?? Just a guess......

Thanks, That is kind of what I am looking for. A starting point that I can work from.

With my Main not having any markings on it, I don't know where I'm at.

Plan to get a sprocket and jets tomorrow if I can find locally, if not will order them.

 

[swazi_matt]

Also try a nedj needle. It has smoother power

I started with 13/48 and changed to 12/48 and then went 13/51. I am now going to change back to 12/48 as the bike handles a bit better with the longer wheelbase and I prefer the 12/48 and 13/51 over stock for climbing. Often using second to climb

 

[Jacob 'Berg]

Also try a nedj needle. It has smoother power

I started with 13/48 and changed to 12/48 and then went 13/51. I am now going to change back to 12/48 as the bike handles a bit better with the longer wheelbase and I prefer the 12/48 and 13/51 over stock for climbing. Often using second to climb

Not sure about the 200 displacements, but the NEDJ and NEDW needles are typically too lean on the ASI screw top carb.

 

[12Bravo]

Just put the 178 Main and 40 Pilot in. Started with ASO 1.5 out and the Idle screw 1.5 out.

I had to pull ASO another .5 out and Pull the Idle screw .25-.5 out to get to idle.

I did what I found on a link, put in 3rd with throttle just open....Blipped it and it goes Bwwaaahhhaaaa....

 

[gasgasxc]

You give up a lot of the bikes potential when you gear too low.
Besides losing the warp overdrive top gear feature.

Although it seems the bike is easier to climb and easier to get through tight technical woods.The reality is you give up the broad power delivery.The gaps are just too narrow and you are forced to shift too often.

Especially climbing big hills.
You'll be stuck in a very narrow window with which to work the hill with..

 

[12Bravo]

You give up a lot of the bikes potential when you gear too low.
Besides losing the warp overdrive top gear feature.

Although it seems the bike is easier to climb and easier to get through tight technical woods.The reality is you give up the broad power delivery.The gaps are just too narrow and you are forced to shift too often.

Especially climbing big hills.
You'll be stuck in a very narrow window with which to work the hill with..

I think for right now I am going to just leave the gearing alone till I figure out this bike. I posted a video of what the motor sounds like in my "Noise" thread.

I am watching video's to see what a 2 stroke should sound like at idle to see how I am doing setting it.

 

[12Bravo]

Well, put new plug in and fired it up to test it in the field. It was running like crap! Keep falling on it's face. So I moved the clip up and now is a bit better. But when I do the 3rd gear test, half throttle......Buuhhhhhaaaaa....flat on face. This is most definitely tinker town! Oh the joys of learning a new thing...haha

 

[12Bravo]

Well as I thought I knew what I was doing I DON'T.......

I just don't understand this jetting stuff. I have read and read and read, but it's not turning the light bulb on yet.

N1EC #3 Clip
Main 178
Pilot #40
Slide #7
One thing I noticed, I started it with no CHOKE on one kick. It doesn't feel connected to the bike, late response. Sitting idling, throttle feels fine, under load it doesn't respond, or bogs a bit.
Air screw is out around 3 turns and the Idle screw is 1/2-3/4 out.

What next? Do I try a different main? Different Pilot?
Pilot is for idle and low RPM's, so which way do I go? #42 or #38? What is #35 compared to a #40, richer or leaner?
Main is for on throttle 1/2-WOT, which way do I go? Lower # or Higher#
I have already tried different clip postitions, from #2 all the way to #5. I am using a brand new plug, that looks to have some black on it. But I don't have room to open it up in all gears. I am limited to 2 gear then have to let off or I will be in the woods or in a house...

Suggestions please.

Edited: I read the post on here about jetting, "If you can start it cold with no choke, the pilot circuit is too rich.
If, when warm, the idle seems to hang when blipping the throttle, the pilot circuit is too lean"

But then it say's this "
On a 2-stroke - Riding in 3rd gear, with a warm engine and the throttle BARELY cracked open, roll the throttle to 1/2. If the bike sputters and crackles, and you feel like you have to keep rolling on the throttle to smooth it out, the needle is too rich. If, on the otherhand, you get the dreaded 'buhhhhhhwaaaaa', the needle is too lean."

So I am having BOTH issues.......If one is to rich and the other is to lean, which way do I go? I'm so confused now...

 

[gasgasxc]

You should jet the bike from the bottom up.

 

[Rick]

Spend some time reading>http://www.chicagostories.net/ericgorr/EG_Carb Tuning.html it will either make you understand or confuse the crap out of you.
if you have a boooooooowwwwg......your lean.....fatten it up on the pilot jet.

I checked my jetting log notes......178m 45p LTR needle #7 slide
The LTR needle is a needle that was supplied in a jetting kit by Less@LTR.....NO longer available.....

 

[12Bravo]

Spend some time reading>http://www.chicagostories.net/ericgorr/EG_Carb Tuning.html it will either make you understand or confuse the crap out of you.
if you have a boooooooowwwwg......your lean.....fatten it up on the pilot jet.

I checked my jetting log notes......178m 45p LTR needle #7 slide
The LTR needle is a needle that was supplied in a jetting kit by Less@LTR.....NO longer available.....

This makes sense.
This is the main issue I am having.......When it goes boooooooowwwwg and falls flat, it means lean. But since I can start the bike cold with no choke it means it is rich, so which one is it? Why am I getting rich readings and lean readings?
NOTHING that I have read addresses what I am dealing with.

One thing that I am not seeing anywhere.

Is the lower # ie...#35 Pilot vs #40 pilot leaner or richer? I had a #35 in it and move to a #40, so did I fatten or lean it?

Same for main jet, which direction is lean and which is rich?

 

[Jacob 'Berg]

This makes sense.
This is the main issue I am having.......When it goes boooooooowwwwg and falls flat, it means lean. But since I can start the bike cold with no choke it means it is rich, so which one is it? Why am I getting rich readings and lean readings?
NOTHING that I have read addresses what I am dealing with.

One thing that I am not seeing anywhere.

Is the lower # ie...#35 Pilot vs #40 pilot leaner or richer? I had a #35 in it and move to a #40, so did I fatten or lean it?

Same for main jet, which direction is lean and which is rich?

Smaller number is leaner for both pilot and main jet.

 

[jhendr3702]

and on needle.. leanest clip position is top .. richest is bottom

and here is some needle info in regards to the ltr needle and useable options.. in my area, the cek needle worked great on those year bikes..
(mine was a 250 and a 300 tho )
http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=15135&highlight=ltr+needle

 

[Jacob 'Berg]

and on needle.. leanest clip position is top .. richest is bottom

and here is some needle info in regards to the ltr needle and useable options.. in my area, the cek needle worked great on those year bikes..
(mine was a 250 and a 300 tho )
http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=15135&highlight=ltr+needle

+1 on the CEK. That is what I run on my 05 300 (AS1 carb). The needle makes for very linear and usable power spread.

 

[12Bravo]

Smaller number is leaner for both pilot and main jet.

That's what I was looking for. Reading so many different threads and articles about jetting, none of them said lower was leaner......It was just implied that we should know it.....lol

 

[jhendr3702]

+1 on the CEK. That is what I run on my 05 300 (AS1 carb). The needle makes for very linear and usable power spread.

Yep. Last one i had i loaned to a guy on a ktm 300 as a trial over a year ago. I think he is keeping it lol

 

[12Bravo]

Yep. Last one i had i loaned to a guy on a ktm 300 as a trial over a year ago. I think he is keeping it lol

Will it work with the EC200?

AS1 carb? Is that the same as the PWK38?

CEK, is that a KTM needle? I was talking to my dealers that are local, I asked about some needles and was looked at like I have a third eye!

 

[RBrider]

You should jet the bike from the bottom up.

This is what I would do.

My stock '01 Xc 200 had 40 pilot. It had a fast, hanging idle for a few seconds, then would shut off. Adjusting the air screw made no difference. When riding it, it was very weak on the bottom and sounded like a pipey 125, then had a hard mid range hit.

I installed a #42 pilot (one step richer), set the air screw at 1.5 turns out and just turned the idle screw in enough to keep the bike running.

After starting the bike, I let it run for a few minutes with fan set up to blow air through the radiators, then I slowly turned the air screw in till the bike started running badly and then backed it out till it ran smoothly again. (One full turn out in my case)

At that point, set your idle screw for the desired idle speed in neutral.

If it starts well, idles well, pulls and accelerates well from closed throttle to 1/8 throttle (or so), then that part is done.

Then you're ready for the mid range. Does it pull OK at 1/3 or 1/2 throttle?
If so, leave the needle alone. If it dies, or you hear it rattling or trying to run hot, it's too lean. raise the needle by dropping the clip one notch. If ,otoh, it blubbers and sounds like it's flooding, do the opposite and raise the clip one notch, that'll lean out the mid range.

After you get that done, then do your open throttle test. If it falls on it's face or runs out of gas, go up one step on the main, like from 178 to 180.
If it blubbers and sounds like it's flooding, then drop down one size.

Take it a step at a time, starting from the bottom, like gasgasxc advised you to do.

Your goal, at this stage is to get it running well. Not perfect, or tuned for a race, just good enough that you can get out and ride and get some time on the bike. The fine tuning for optimum power can come later.

My bike ran like crap. One step richer on the pilot changed everything for the better. Sometimes one little change can be all you need.

RB