Needle experts please 300ec AS1

[Dread]

Hi all, I have been experimenting with my jetting and i am getting close to what i am seeking with the N3EH KTM needle.
However it is on the top clip #1 and it still blubbers around 1/4 throttle, I am thinking this is the first taper a little rich?
I would like to be where I am now everywhere else and a little weaker on that transition with the needle preferably on the middle clip , giving me room for adjustment.

Can anyone tell me the next choice? Needle or slide?

AS1 38mm, 40P, 178 air screw is about 2.5 out but engine is not very responsive to adjustment of it. Bike Starts, ticks over, pulls strongly at all throttle openings right through the range with smooth transition to full power but at slower/lower throttle openings it hangs on blubbering too long unless i am giving it more gas by winding on more quickly, at a steady throttle on road it blubbers up to about 45/50mph till it runs cleanly.

 

[webmaster]

Hi all, I have been experimenting with my jetting and i am getting close to what i am seeking with the N3EH KTM needle.
However it is on the top clip #1 and it still blubbers around 1/4 throttle, I am thinking this is the first taper a little rich?
I would like to be where I am now everywhere else and a little weaker on that transition with the needle preferably on the middle clip , giving me room for adjustment.

Can anyone tell me the next choice? Needle or slide?

AS1 38mm, 40P, 178 air screw is about 2.5 out but engine is not very responsive to adjustment of it. Bike Starts, ticks over, pulls strongly at all throttle openings right through the range with smooth transition to full power but at slower/lower throttle openings it hangs on blubbering too long unless i am giving it more gas by winding on more quickly, at a steady throttle on road it blubbers up to about 45/50mph till it runs cleanly.

If you say that your air screw adjustment is "not very responsive to adjustment of it" - then my guess is that you didn't back out your idle when going from older needle to new. It is still "pulling over" - you need to get slide down so that pilot circuit has more effect.

I would think about going up to 42 pilot - back out idle so it isn't in all the way to the point of being "coil-bound".

Air screw - I would start at 2 to 2.5 turns out.

jeff

 

[Dread]

Thanks Jeff, I have the slide well down, there is some response from the airscrew but it is not very dynamic.
I have tried the 42 pilot and it is too rich. I am waiting on a 38 that I was going to try with a CCK keihin needle, as with that needle it was slow to clean up from a closed throttle.
With the Kawasaki needle this hesitation has moved up to about 1/4 throttle so I think the pilot is about right. I am just out of needle slots to adjust it down further, but every where else is really good and I don't want to loose all that quality mixture.
I am wanting to know which needle i need to go to but it struck me that I could maybe keep things very similar at other throttle openings by changing the slide instead
This kawasaki chart shows the needle progression as it goes leaner in general and i am trying to achieve leaner in a specific throttle position It also shows the use of a #8 slide which may or may not be relevant to the GG.

 

[webmaster]

I see from another post of yours that you have a 2007 gasgas....

Another issue you might be fighting is wear on the nozzle. (the needle fits into the nozzle).

The nozzle is not replace-able on this carb...

jeff

 

[(F5)]

Is not conventionally replaceable.

Good light source and magnifying glass will spot any ovality.

I replaced mine with the metering block from a lower hour PWK. In this case a 125 35mm carb which fit the 38 (39?) Was same profile at slide oddly. What was slightly different was the pressed in nozzle was plated rather than bare. Cant swear they are all the same size
.

STIX or something do an aftermarket version that some claim is improvement. Very spendy.

 

[Dread]

Thanks for your thoughts, The needle jet is in good condition not too many hours on the bike .

 

[Dread]

Well my enthusiasm got the better of me so using photos I have found on the net as a guide I have modified my #7 slide to be a #8 slide.
The result is fantastic, clean strong torque all the way through the range. the Fourstroking (blubbering) at 1/4 throttle is gone. Yeehaa

Now considering doing the notch mod to the airbox side of the slide to clean up the tickover.

Still the same question, what needle do I fit to stay as is with the clip in the middle position ?

 

[Dread]

Well my enthusiasm got the better of me so using photos I have found on the net as a guide I have modified my #7 slide to be a #8 slide.
The result is fantastic, clean strong torque all the way through the range. the Fourstroking (blubbering) at 1/4 throttle is gone. Yeehaa

Now considering doing the notch mod to the airbox side of the slide to clean up the tickover.
http://www.pbase.com/jdjetting1/image/165750894.jpg

Still the same question, what needle do I fit to stay as is with the clip in the middle position ?

 

[spooly]

Can u do a full post of the mod??

Sent from my SM-J610FN using Tapatalk

 

[farmerj]

Good job Dread, glad you got that 1/4 throttle "cleaned up". It seems that people hesitate to mess with slides; maybe largely because they are expensive. But fyi, similar to your experience, both of my GG 300s love a #9!

Jeff

 

[Dread]

Thanks very much , I love a good grind

 

[Dread]

Thanks for the input, I am very close to spot on but may go slightly further with the slide grinding to make it #8.5. Currently #8.

I could still do with getting the needle clip in the middle position so i have some adjustment available come the warmer weather.

The current needle is the N3EH , clip in top groove.

Does anyone know how to do this without changing anything else?
The only change that would be advantageous would be a slight leaning off at around the quarter throttle position, which would negate the extra grinding mentioned.

 

[hallsy]

Thanks for the input, I am very close to spot on but may go slightly further with the slide grinding to make it #8.5. Currently #8.

I could still do with getting the needle clip in the middle position so i have some adjustment available come the warmer weather.

The current needle is the N3EH , clip in top groove.

Does anyone know how to do this without changing anything else?
The only change that would be advantageous would be a slight leaning off at around the quarter throttle position, which would negate the extra grinding mentioned.

I had to join in order to post in your thread, so being my first time to do so in this forum please forgive if I manage to screw up this post.

There are several needle series that are clip position relatives of your N3EH. Most of them are richer, and are not what your looking for but there are a few that are leaner. Here is the entire list of that family of needles. They are listed in 1/2 clip position increments from leanest to richest.

LEANEST
N82x
N89x
N3Cx
N3Ex
N8Rx
N2Zx
N4Dx
N3Vx
N4Ax
N6Mx
RICHEST

N89x then is 1 full clip leaner than N3Ex, and N82x is 1.5 clips leaner than N3Ex. N89x in clip 2 = N3Ex in clip 1. That doesn't get you to clip 3 but does give some adjustment. Not sure where you'd source the N82x other than a Kawasaki KX 500 parts fiche and as you've shown above it may have only been available in leaner starting diameters from K through T. It appears the N89x was available from Kawasaki in diameters A through H. However you can also source the N89x in diameters G through J from a newer Yamaha YZ 250 parts fiche. Looked to me as though the same needle (N89H) was @ $13 from Yamaha vs. @ $23 from Kawasaki.

 

[Dread]

Thanks very much for your input, beyond the call of duty.
So that being known (N89x) what diameter (x) should i choose, do i stick with the diameter i have ? ie the H or do i need to adjust this value to compensate at all?
Sorry, I am just unsure of the effect this is will be making.
I am really pleased with how the bike is running and i don't want to back pedal.

 

[hallsy]

Thanks very much for your input, beyond the call of duty.
So that being known (N89x) what diameter (x) should i choose, do i stick with the diameter i have ? ie the H or do i need to adjust this value to compensate at all?
Sorry, I am just unsure of the effect this is will be making.
I am really pleased with how the bike is running and i don't want to back pedal.

Your welcome, yes stick with the H diameter since your happy with it. N89H-2 will be the same as N3EH-1. When you change the starting diameter of these needles it only changes the needles outside diameter in the area of the straight section, the remainder of the needle (tapered portion) doesn't change.
If you haven't already, give some serious consideration to going back to the second clip position with your N3EH. It could be that your slide modification was more effective in resolving your issue than the leaner clip position was. There may or may not be something to gain by back pedaling with the clip position, but you wont know for sure unless you try.

 

[Dread]

Thats great Hallsy,
cheers

 

[farmerj]

I had to join in order to post in your thread, so being my first time to do so in this forum please forgive if I manage to screw up this post.

Great to see you over here, hallsy. Your jetting posts have helped me tremendously. Thank you.

Between you and Jakobi (and all of the other helpful people here), we'll all be running in the jetting "sweet spot" in no time!

Jeff