no preload spacers

J

jasont1532

New member
i just took apart my marzochi 45mm forks to put .44 springs in. i couuld not locate any preload spacers. the bike is an 05ec300. i just bought it brand new. so it has never been apart, so i think. does the stock spring setup not have a spacer? any info would be a help. drew at wer said to make spacers 1/8-3/16 thick. i did this and installed them in the bottom of the springs. will try out tonight.
 
The spacers are under the spring, I never saw a pair of Zokes without them, Husky or GG. Many times they stick to the cartridge and fall out when you dump the oil. How much preload was there with the stock springs? Are your .44s the same length as the .42s you removed? Whatever, you should run about 8mm preload max. Also, the fork is under damped in HS rebound, which may feel worse with the .44s.
 
the springs were the same length. i didnt measure preload (spring length minus installed height im assuming) i did add a 1/8 spacer (washer from another race tech spring kit ground down at outer diameter) the fork does feel harsh over logs and rock gardens. i had the rebound almost all the way in with the stock springs. i havent rode with the 44's yet
 
i tried to find the spacers with a small long magnet, long picks, hooked,bent,etc. i could feel where they were supposed to be but no spacers. i didnt want to drain the oil yet because i dont have any 7.5 weight in stock and the bike only has 6.5 hours on it. i have plenty of 5 and 2.5 weight oil but i think the 5 would make the rebound worse. i only use the 2.5 in winter on my wr. i dont have enough experience or confidence to play with valve shims yet.
 
Mine are apart on the bench now. The springs are approx 460mm long. There are approx 50mm long PVC tube spacers under them. Preload is fine tuned with washer spacers on the top of the spring. What do you have?

The light rebound makes the fork come out of deep compression too fast and can feel like a compression issue. Its an easy fix. For oil use Spectro 125/150.
 
i will get the spectro oil. im going to put a few more hours on the machine then i will change the oil in the forks and try to find the spacers. what is the easy fix. i dont mind trying things i just dont want to damage anything. i would remove/add shims, i just dont want to guess. i need to learn some of the theory behind valving. eric at town and country said they epoxy some bleed holes. i dont have much faith in that place-been screwed a couple of times. most recently he sold me some used springs he said would fit(.46). when i installed them they squeaked and binded. that scared me. i pulled them out. the only markings on the spring was the #48. wtf. so i bought .44 springs from wer.
 
The fix is valving. Everyone has a different idea how to change things and also different preferences. Bleed holes are fixed orafices, or static like the clicker adjustments, and only affect low fluid speeds. At high speeds they are not much of a factor. That fork may also have a bleed shim stock. Getting rid of that, and addding rebound, will provide pretty good results without modifying the pistons. Husky Zokes have no compression bleed holes and I prefer the action of the GG Zokes better with similar valving.

Torquing the 3 bolt lower GG clamp too much can make the fork harsh too, and they all come too tight from the factory.

What do you weigh that you went with .44s? With the valving dialed in the .42s are pretty good for me at 185lbs.
 
GMP said:
The fix is valving. Everyone has a different idea how to change things and also different preferences. Bleed holes are fixed orafices, or static like the clicker adjustments, and only affect low fluid speeds. At high speeds they are not much of a factor. That fork may also have a bleed shim stock. Getting rid of that, and addding rebound, will provide pretty good results without modifying the pistons. Husky Zokes have no compression bleed holes and I prefer the action of the GG Zokes better with similar valving.

Torquing the 3 bolt lower GG clamp too much can make the fork harsh too, and they all come too tight from the factory.

What do you weigh that you went with .44s? With the valving dialed in the .42s are pretty good for me at 185lbs.
Click to expand...

I dont mean to be a pain, but could you piont out the item number of the bleed shim for me?
http://www.marzocchi.com/template/listSPAManuals.asp?IDFolder=180&LN=UK&Sito=moto

Thanks for the help.
 
went out for an hour today. the rebound is worse as u said. it doesn't bottom anymore. feels better on landings off logs,dropoffs. seems a little higher in turns.(hit a tree) seems worse tracking over rock gardens. i weigh 210 with gear. i am also used to a heavy 4 stroke.
 
You won't find it in a generic shop manual, as its a valving adjustment. Its simply a technique to increase free bleed by making the first shim on the piston smaller than the piston OD and expose the ports, so the next larger shim sits off the piston face by the thickness of that first bleed shim. This way the piston is never sealed and always allows some free bleed. Its done to allow the valving to start working faster and give a plush ride over small stuff with the rest of the stack being more firm. Just another idea, works OK in some applications and poor in others.

Do a search for a thread started by pobit, where he posted some nice photos and specs of '05 and '06 OEM GasGas Zoke valving.
 
The Marzocchis are pretty good forks. I'm sure they can be improved or tailored via re-valving but they don't really need it unless you are deadly serious about competition and in contention for podium places.

The preload shims are definitely under the springs but they are plastic so fishing around with a magnet wont help. They usually drop out when you drain the oil so you have all the fun of picking them out of the gunk in your drain can! If there are no shims then will be no preload when you put the caps on. So if you have to compress the springs a little to fit the caps I reckon the spacers are there.

Max rebound seems far too high to me. I found rebound needed to be close to the manual setting even with 0.48s fitted. I run very little compression damping somewhere close to minimum.

If you want it good for all round terrain you probably have the right springs for your weight. If you then want to bias rock gardens a little I would increase the air gap to 120mm & run minimal preload but you need some. Try backing the compression & rebound right off. Set rebound by bouncing the bike, increasing rebound so it returns as quick as possible but with no overshoot. It will then be within a couple of clicks of correct. Now set compression by riding. Increase compression until you bottom out infrequently or if you just feel you're blowing through the travel too quick.
 
Last edited:
it seems when you get into large rocks or roots it becomes twitchy. square edge rocks beat me up. rock gardens i lose my front end traction. after a day of riding i always had lower back pain. with this bike it is worse. im used to a heavy 4 stroke that sucks up the rocks better. i tried moving the bars back to the smaller holes in the triple clamp. we will see if it helps with my back.
 
The 4-stroke will feel more planted simply because its heavy. The GG is a lot lighter and will be more active on the trail. I will show you how to set the bike up and it will be much improved. I've been hammering the same rocks as you since '00 on GG 250s and they are the best 2-strokes for the job.
 
i cant wait because the motor is awesome. the shocks feels pretty good already, maybe some small adjustments but ill worry about that later.
 
The shock valving is pretty close stock even in the rocks, in a different league than a stock KTM.

If your riding tommorrow try this for a temp fix:

Run no more than 10mm shock spring preload. The bike likes a lot of sag, especially the pre '07 with the longer shock. Even 110mm+ is OK. The shock has plenty of rebound, run the clicker from 12 - 15. With the light preload in the rear, run just enough comp on the shock to keep it from squatting too much and making the steering get too slow. Crank the fork rebound way in, 3- 4 clicks out. Open the fork comp to 15+. This should be an improvement in the technical rocks, for racing in south Jersey you go more aggressive on the damping.
 
nick790 said:
I dont mean to be a pain, but could you piont out the item number of the bleed shim for me?
http://www.marzocchi.com/template/listSPAManuals.asp?IDFolder=180&LN=UK&Sito=moto

Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...

The bleed shim is the first shim in the stack of shims underneath the piston. This is usually smaller than the piston diameter to allow oil to flow past easily for small forrk movements giving the nice plush feel we all enjoy !. On page 64 of the manual, it shows the compression valve. Item number 45 is the piston and underneath that is item 46. This is the shim stack containing several shims. The first shim of this stack is the bleed shim.
 
ferguscawley said:
The bleed shim is the first shim in the stack of shims underneath the piston. This is usually smaller than the piston diameter to allow oil to flow past easily for small forrk movements giving the nice plush feel we all enjoy !. On page 64 of the manual, it shows the compression valve. Item number 45 is the piston and underneath that is item 46. This is the shim stack containing several shims. The first shim of this stack is the bleed shim.
Click to expand...

Thanks, do you just remove that shim, or do you have to replace it with something?
 
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