white gunk coming from crankcase breather tube

[Crankin04]

Hey guys,

Bike is a 2004 Gas Gas FSE 450 (later model for you guru's)

So I have this milky white discharge that has been coming from my engine breather tube. It's at the top and comes out near air box and I'm assuming it's from the crankcase?

The coolant levels don't seem to drop at all, but I have always topped it off before every ride anyways. The overflow bottle will only fill up if I top it off to the top of the rad cap.

So When I drain the oil out of the frame and transmission it's truly emaculate as though It was out of the quart bottle itself.

I notice no loss of power or compression, bike runs and feels great. Their was white smoke coming from exhaust and tail pipe for about 5 - 10 seconds then it was gone, after I had some trouble getting it started (seemed like it was flooded for a bit before getting started) one time, and on most cold starts their is no white smoke coming at all

My guess would be that either my water pump seals are shot behind my alloy empeller or their is just lots of condensation built up in my engine and it needs to be burned out? Even though I have done a couple oil changes to see if I can flush it out, should I do
more?

I have not done any water crossings or washed my bike for about 3 rides now.

Here are some pics attached to the post.

Thanks for all your help!

Crankin04

 

[bergerhag]

If engine oil is fine when drained, don't worry about this. Oil splashes up the breather tube, and get mixed with condensation of water. Remove the tube and clean it out, that will keep the goey spills away for a while.

 

[Crankin04]

If engine oil is fine when drained, don't worry about this. Oil splashes up the breather tube, and get mixed with condensation of water. Remove the tube and clean it out, that will keep the goey spills away for a while.

I went ahead and removed the tube and cleaned it out one day and took valve cover off and it looked fine. But when I changed the oil again and went riding, it started spitting more drops out about 20 minutes into it. Bike still ran great and coolant stayed the right level after re-dumping the coolant overflow bottle back into the radiators. I also drained the oil again and looked perfect, so maybe I just need to keep riding it out til it's all gone? You think maybe my head gasket is slightly leaking or crank seals?

I don't know what to think, since the bike is running really, really good. Like when I first bought it type of good

Thanks again for your help

Crankin04

 

[Crankin04]

If engine oil is fine when drained, don't worry about this. Oil splashes up the breather tube, and get mixed with condensation of water. Remove the tube and clean it out, that will keep the goey spills away for a while.

Berg and Others,

Still getting more of that white spooge gunk out of my vent hose. This time it's a lot thicker and way less runny than last time. I also noticed that when I stop the bike and turn key off to take a break, then turn key on and re-start up I can get it to start but everytime I hit the e-start their's white smoke coming out of my exhaust. It goes away after it starts up just during the revolutions. Also getting lots of backfire still.

Checked coolant level after ride and it was about the same amount in Radiators looking under cap. Plus their was some that went into overflow bottle.

Are these signs of a leaking head gasket or water pump seals? Any other thoughts on this? The thick white gunk is starting to get really annoying

 

[bergerhag]

White smoke out the pipe is not a good sign. And also the amount of gooey spills is more than normal. Are you sure the engine oil is still fine? If water was coming in to your lubrication system in any significant amount, the oil would get creamy, all of it. Pumps do a fine job mixing... How does it look on the stick?

And are you absolutely sure it is not overfilled? How much oil do did you fill on last change? Do you drain both tank and engine? (Not that I question your mechanic skills, it just that some people just don't read their manuals )
Is there any risk that you migth have gotten water into your vent hose when washing? My thinking is that there might be a combination of problems: 1: Overfilled on oil makes it splash up into the breather, and water inserted into hose makes it gooey.
2. The hard starting might very well come from a blown head gasket. If ever so little water makes it into the cylinder, starting would become very difficult.

However, the white puffs of smoke on restart is by itself a call for disassembly.(unless you are riding in very wet conditions with lots of water crossings. How is your air filter? Soaking in water?)

 

[Crankin04]

Engine oil is still fine, and the dipstick looks fine too...

I guess I could be overfilling it, but I put in a bout 1800ml (almost 2 full quarts) according to what the manual says and when I drain it I take out the frame oil stop nut and the bottom of the engine nut, if that makes sense? Am I missing a place to also drain from?

I have not done any major water crossings.

My bike isn't much of a hard start anymore, except a little more difficult when the engine is cold. Sometimes it will do the smoke and sometimes not out the exhaust?

Seems like my bike isn't very "consistent" on things, but I probably should disassemble my crankcase cover and head cover and see what's going on...

thanks for help!

Crankin04

 

[ggg]

my guess head gasket, mine has just gone, these signs are
Hard starting
Remove your plug it will be darker than normall.
Milly oil in back of airbox and later in engine oil
Remove rad cap looking into raditor the water will have bubbles
Remove header pipe you will have water in it, look into block though exhuast opening you will see white droplets.

These are all the signs of a blown head gasket it just starts with harder starting first and a darker looking plug then starts the white looking goo in the egine breather lines, thats the water condensation in the motor from the head gasket.

 

[Crankin04]

my guess head gasket, mine has just gone, these signs are
Hard starting
Remove your plug it will be darker than normall.
Milly oil in back of airbox and later in engine oil
Remove rad cap looking into raditor the water will have bubbles
Remove header pipe you will have water in it, look into block though exhuast opening you will see white droplets.

These are all the signs of a blown head gasket it just starts with harder starting first and a darker looking plug then starts the white looking goo in the egine breather lines, thats the water condensation in the motor from the head gasket.

I don't notice any bubbles in my radiator and engine/frame oil still look fine, although it sounds like it's starting to blow since it's only getting worse with the white gunk and smoke with hard starting. Is replacing the head gasket a procedure that can be done pretty easily? Anything else I should get before replacing?

Thanks for help

Crankin04

 

[ggg]

I don't notice any bubbles in my radiator and engine/frame oil still look fine, although it sounds like it's starting to blow since it's only getting worse with the white gunk and smoke with hard starting. Is replacing the head gasket a procedure that can be done pretty easily? Anything else I should get before replacing?

Thanks for help

Crankin04

I would not replaced the heat gasket until you are sure thats what it is.

its is alot easier to remove the exhuast and header pipe first, all you will need to replace is the header gasket, this takes alot less time and is also cheaper on parts. if your head is blown there will be signs of water in the exhuast outlets and your plug will look darker than normall. If there is moisture in there then its the head gasket and you have to remove the exhuast anyway.

Replacing the head gaskets is not hard you just read the manual and mark how things come out, i did mine for the first time it took about 3 hours to stripp down.

If you have no bubbles in the rads i doubt if the head gasket is blown, thats a sure sign the gasket is gone.

The other thing you can do is check is your valves its called a leak down test, you remove the exhuast header pipe and the carb/efi and pour a small amount of fuel into each of the vavle seats through the exhuast inlet and fuel inlets, make sure the valves are level so the fuel covers all around the vavles, this is a test to see if the valves are seating correctly as the fuel should not leak past the valves if it does the motor will not hold compression.
to do this you need to make sure the motors at TDC so all the valves are closed on the compression stroke.

if both of these thing are ok not sure where to go from here.

 

[Crankin04]

I would not replaced the heat gasket until you are sure thats what it is.

its is alot easier to remove the exhuast and header pipe first, all you will need to replace is the header gasket, this takes alot less time and is also cheaper on parts. if your head is blown there will be signs of water in the exhuast outlets and your plug will look darker than normall. If there is moisture in there then its the head gasket and you have to remove the exhuast anyway.

Replacing the head gaskets is not hard you just read the manual and mark how things come out, i did mine for the first time it took about 3 hours to stripp down.

If you have no bubbles in the rads i doubt if the head gasket is blown, thats a sure sign the gasket is gone.

The other thing you can do is check is your valves its called a leak down test, you remove the exhuast header pipe and the carb/efi and pour a small amount of fuel into each of the vavle seats through the exhuast inlet and fuel inlets, make sure the valves are level so the fuel covers all around the vavles, this is a test to see if the valves are seating correctly as the fuel should not leak past the valves if it does the motor will not hold compression.
to do this you need to make sure the motors at TDC so all the valves are closed on the compression stroke.

if both of these thing are ok not sure where to go from here.

So your saying that the gasket could just be gone completely, instead of starting to blow with no bubbles in the radiator? What gets me is my oil when it's drained is totally fine, and it ONLY smokes on occasion and when I try and start cold. It looks like blue smoke sometimes too?

I mean how easily can a head gasket be blown? I've always kept lots of coolant in my radiators and made sure they weren't plugged up from anything. Plus I thought the gasser 4 strokes usually run cooler than others?

I have already gotten my valves check and adjusted from the shop earlier this year and they investigated my head and said it looked fine, but who knows how "well" they looked and what not. Especially since it started spooging out the white gunk the ride right after I got it back from them

Anyways I might take it in again to a different local shop and have them do some investigating since I don't have much time to look at it further. Any other thoughts let me know.

Thanks guys,

Crankin04

 

[noobi]

Just throwing it out there, but some smoking could be engine oil getting past the rings, if they were worn out, then some oil would get past when they were cold, and as it heated up, they would expand and no more oil could get past. But I dont think that explains the hard starting.

 

[ggg]

So your saying that the gasket could just be gone completely, instead of starting to blow with no bubbles in the radiator?No No What gets me is my oil when it's drained is totally fine, and it ONLY smokes on occasion and when I try and start cold. It looks like blue smoke sometimes too?

I mean how easily can a head gasket be blown? easliy enough my 2008 was replaced under warranty and 2 year later it gone again, i run coolant doesnt everyone?I've always kept lots of coolant in my radiators and made sure they weren't plugged up from anything. Plus I thought the gasser 4 strokes usually run cooler than others? whoever told you that is full of shit
I have already gotten my valves check and adjusted from the shop earlier this year and they investigated my head and said it looked fine, but who knows how "well" they looked and what not. Especially since it started spooging out the white gunk the ride right after I got it back from them

Anyways I might take it in again to a different local shop and have them do some investigating since I don't have much time to look at it further. Any other thoughts let me know.

Thanks guys,

Crankin04

IF there is NO bubbles in the rads the Head gasket is mostly likely ok , as soon as the gasket starts to leak, you will see bubbles in the rads.

You got your valves Checked, what did you get checked?? did they do a leakdown test?? if they did not remove the exhuast and carb/efi they did not do a leak down test. if your valves leak gases past them it Will Be Hard To Start.


Blue smoke is a sign of a warn out motor same as a car, could be piston/rings etc.

 

[Crankin04]

IF there is NO bubbles in the rads the Head gasket is mostly likely ok , as soon as the gasket starts to leak, you will see bubbles in the rads.

You got your valves Checked, what did you get checked?? did they do a leakdown test?? if they did not remove the exhuast and carb/efi they did not do a leak down test. if your valves leak gases past them it Will Be Hard To Start.


Blue smoke is a sign of a warn out motor same as a car, could be piston/rings etc.

I don't know if they did a leakdown test or not. They said they just adjusted the valves that looked really tight. Inspected my head as well.

The blue/white smoke (whatever it is, can't tell the color exactly) that comes out doesn't always happen. Usually only does if I have been cracking the throttle open while using the e-start to try and get it started when cold. Sometimes it starts easy and I don't have to do any of that and no smoke at all.

The one thing that IS always consistent is white spooge out my breather tube. Sometimes it's in small amounts after a ride, and sometimes larger amounts. I put about 1800ml like the manual says after I drain my oil. I usually make sure to get out all the oil too before re-pouring new oil.

Should I do less like maybe 1600ml? Is some getting by some how? I don't notice any loss of power or bogging, and bike idles real good...

 

[ggg]

I don't know if they did a leakdown test or not. They said they just adjusted the valves that looked really tight. Inspected my head as well. Well ask them if they did and you will know...

The blue/white smoke (whatever it is, can't tell the color exactly) that comes out doesn't always happen. Usually only does if I have been cracking the throttle open while using the e-start to try and get it started when cold. You should take it to someone how knows about bike, becuase it is obvous you dont, if the bike wont start and its turning over the smoke or whatever is unburnt fuel, that what happens when your bike doenst start... Sometimes it starts easy and I don't have to do any of that and no smoke at all.

The one thing that IS always consistent is white spooge out my breather tube. Ive alraedy told you want to look for Sometimes it's in small amounts after a ride, and sometimes larger amounts. I put about 1800ml like the manual says after I drain my oil. I usually make sure to get out all the oil too before re-pouring new oil.

Should I do less like maybe 1600ml? yeh i guess you are, how can putting in less oil stop the white goo, does putting in less stop the moisture thats mixing with the oil to turn it white?? no it doesnt, if you over fill the bike it would be black oil coming out the breather tube..Is some getting by some how? I don't notice any loss of power or bogging, and bike idles real good...

ggg
fsr450

 

[Crankin04]

ggg
fsr450

By the way your replying to my post about my questions, you sound a bit condescending, and actually to be honest with you, kind of a DOUCHE BAG.

Thanks for all your help, I guess...

Crankin04

 

[ggg]

By the way your replying to my post about my questions, you sound a bit condescending, and actually to be honest with you, kind of a DOUCHE BAG.

Thanks for all your help, I guess...

Crankin04

yep had a bad day on the last post, sorry for that.

The white goo could be normal it depends on your eviroment, as your bike cools down after a ride it sucks in a bit of moisture from the surrounding enviroment and then it condenses in the head/ rocker cover, when you start the bike up the moisture is released back though the breather hose, if your in a dry enviroment it must be something else. Continued hard starting is generaly low compression,valves leaking, head gasket leak, poor sealing of the rings etc.

 

[Crankin04]

yep had a bad day on the last post, sorry for that.

The white goo could be normal it depends on your eviroment, as your bike cools down after a ride it sucks in a bit of moisture from the surrounding enviroment and then it condenses in the head/ rocker cover, when you start the bike up the moisture is released back though the breather hose, if your in a dry enviroment it must be something else. Continued hard starting is generaly low compression,valves leaking, head gasket leak, poor sealing of the rings etc.

No problem, thanks for letting me know about the bad day...

Well as of now, I used this stuff called Solv-tec K-Seal that is supposed to permanentaly fix small to medium sized leaks in the head, cylindar, head gasket, water pump seals, etc., and their is now no white smoke coming from my tail pipe or exahaust. BUT everytime I start my bike up a little white smoke is coming from my breather tube, then goes away once it's idling, and their's still gunk coming out of it after riding hard (it looks like a light-greenish white oil mix, instead of completely white or coffee colored or dark). I am not loosing coolant and it is not contaminated.

Would I be able to tell of some things if I take my valve cover off and look down in it?

On a good not, my bike is now officially NOT A HARD TO START BIKE anymore (knock on wood). It will start within 2 - 3 e-start revolutions everytime.

On the other hand, I drained my oil yesterday after about 100 miles on it, and it was not super dark black, but was pretty dark looking, instead of the honey type look. After that many miles is that normal? is my fuel trim set to burn too rich?

Thanks for help...

Crankin04

 

[jostby]

BUT everytime I start my bike up a little white smoke is coming from my breather tube, then goes away once it's idling, and their's still gunk coming out of it after riding hard (it looks like a light-greenish white oil mix, instead of completely white or coffee colored or dark). I am not loosing coolant and it is not contaminated.

If you aren't losing coolant or engine oil I think it would be safe to say you are seeing condensation, not uncommon depending on how you store the bike, humidity in your area, etc.
Personally I wouldn't loose any sleep over it. Key words would be "every time I start my bike up".. By any chance did you mean every time you start it when it's cold?

 

[Crankin04]

If you aren't losing coolant or engine oil I think it would be safe to say you are seeing condensation, not uncommon depending on how you store the bike, humidity in your area, etc.
Personally I wouldn't loose any sleep over it. Key words would be "every time I start my bike up".. By any chance did you mean every time you start it when it's cold?

Thanks for the reply Jeff,

First off, I live here in the Wenatchee Valley area in Central Washington, about 2 hours from where you live in Spokane (I'm sure you've probably been over here ) and it's definitely not very humid and quite dry now that it is summer.

As the for starting, only when the engine is warm and I go to re-start it after being shut off. I don't seem to see any white smoke out of that breather when it's cold and trying to start.

I'm leaning towards condensation, even without lots of humidity and being stored in my closed garage overnight. Do you think a dirty air filter can cause stuff like this? Or maybe their's just lots of moisture in my crankcase? And as for the coolant, usually if it looks low, it's because their's some that has boiled over into the overflow bottle underneath my throttle body..

Thanks for reply!

Chris

 

[jostby]

As the for starting, only when the engine is warm and I go to re-start it after being shut off. I don't seem to see any white smoke out of that breather when it's cold and trying to start.

I'm leaning towards condensation, even without lots of humidity and being stored in my closed garage overnight. Do you think a dirty air filter can cause stuff like this? Or maybe their's just lots of moisture in my crankcase?

Yeah, I would think heavy condensation would be unlikely in your area but if you aren't losing coolant it would still seem to be the culprit. If it was coolant you should be able to smell that sweet antifreeze smell if you take a whiff when you start it. I wouldn't think a dirty air filter would contribute to this.

The replies you have recieved from everyone on this post are all excellent. I think you may be missing something and may need to start over.

If you are getting that much moisture in the breather pipe it has to be either from water in the crankase (from water crossings or washing the bike) or from the coolant. If you are positive you haven't introduced water yourself then it has to be coolant. Ride it a few more times without topping off the antifreeze level so you can tell if it's going down.

Unfortunately I don't have a 4T (hopefully some day) so am limitted on my knowledge of them. There should be only 3 spots for coolant to enter your case, top cylinder gasket (head gasket), bottom cylinder gasket, and water pump seal.

Now figure out where that water is coming from, you are wasting the riding season