08 EC300 Fork valving

[AdrenalineJunky]

trying to make my suspension work, intermediate doing both MX and forest. More Mx now when we got a track. I´m 98 kilos(~215) +gear.

Dropped in a set of .48 springs up front tonight and it dives alot less and turns much better! Though it bounces bad.. I´ve got some 22, 19 and 15*0.10 shims to play with

Stock Rebound:

21*0.10
19
17
15

Been searching various forums and based on that info and the shims I have I thought I´d try this:

22*0.10
22
(maybe keep the 21 here?)
19
19
17
15
15

Havent tried it on the track with the .48s but with the stock .42s it blew through the stroke very fast. Droped the front bad in whoops.

Stock BV: 11*0.2
22*0.1 (add 1-2 22*0.1)
11*0.2
20*0.1 (or add 22s here?)
19*0.1
11*0.2
18*0.1
17*0.1
16*0.1
14*0.2
12*0.2

Now how do I change this to make it absorb jumps etc without completely ******* up the ability to swallow rocks and roots?

Shall I beef up the first or second stage?

To me it seems like I should keep the first 11*0.2 bleed when I want it to work in the forest aswell!?

What about the "binding" in the forks Terry hay talks about. Is it a REAL issue or not?

I rode an 08 YZF 450 (bone stock) the other day and the suspension on that thing is just phenomenal!! BOTH on the track and taking on logs with ease!


So, U guys that have fiddled with these forks what do you think?


//Anders

 

[moto9]

You will have to experiment thru testing different stack arrangements.

I know on my fork I had to be pretty aggressive with the rebound stack.
I think your on the right track with the stiffer springs, the tough part will be finding a happy medium between a woods set-up and a MX set-up.
One way to limit the fork blowing thru the stroke would be to limit float on the mid valve.
I would use a light face shim so that it will open quickly for the trail trash, but then limit it's travel so that your damping is slowed enough to prevent bottoming, or blowing thru the stroke too quickly.
The other option would be to raise the oil level or a combo of the two.
try 1/2 mm float and work back from there.

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

So you´r saying I should leave the BV alone for now and experiment with the checkplate/Midvalve instead? After I´ve figured out a rebound stack that works ofcourse.

Midvalve isnt that easy to understand but I´m getting there. I had planed to leave it alone for now and focus on rebound and BV. Maybe thats the wrong approach?

Theres not a midvalve in it right now, only the stock Checkplate

11*0,2(remove)
22*0,3
15*0,3
15*0,3
15*0,3

going to remove the bleed shim. Not sure exactly how that effects the rebound and checkplate action though... I guess rebound gets firmer. I think it dont do much on the comp stroke as theres already alot of lift and the CV spring is only a return spring right?



Have to read up more on the exact differencies between a simple CP and a MV.

Oilheight: 100mm was 125. Clickers are full tight on both rebound and comp. Gets harsh with comp full tight though. But I wont survive the jumps otherwise..

 

[GMP]

WAY to little rebound stock, with .48s you will be a pogo stick. Address this first. Good advice from moto9, and follow the other discussions here.

IMO and that of others with a lot of time riding and working this fork including LTR there is no fork binding problem as long as the triple clamps are not over torgued. Perhaps the fork is more sensitive to this but it works very well when set up right, I love mine and don't want to give it up for a Sachs just yet.

Moto and woods, especially rocks/roots, in the same fork is always a tough nut and will most certainly end up a compromise.

Also, please abide by policy and watch the language.

 

[moto9]

So you´r saying I should leave the BV alone for now and experiment with the checkplate/Midvalve instead? After I´ve figured out a rebound stack that works ofcourse.

Midvalve isnt that easy to understand but I´m getting there. I had planed to leave it alone for now and focus on rebound and BV. Maybe thats the wrong approach?

Theres not a midvalve in it right now, only the stock Checkplate

11*0,2(remove)
22*0,3
15*0,3
15*0,3
15*0,3

going to remove the bleed shim. Not sure exactly how that effects the rebound and checkplate action though... I guess rebound gets firmer. I think it dont do much on the comp stroke as theres already alot of lift and the CV spring is only a return spring right?



Have to read up more on the exact differencies between a simple CP and a MV.

Oilheight: 100mm was 125. Clickers are full tight on both rebound and comp. Gets harsh with comp full tight though. But I wont survive the jumps otherwise..

The BV is certainly part of the equation and to meet your goal you'll have to change the stack.
You want a certain amount of lightly restricted lift off the BV piston face to give a plusher ride on the trail, but at some point the stack needs to get progressively stiffer for MX.

The MV comes into play to limit high speed forces, it acts as a parachute to slow the fork's action down, set up as a check valve, the valve has too much free bleed allowing the fork to blow thru the stroke.
By limiting or controlling the flow thru the MV the fork will become more compliant.
So, you could try a light face shim on the BV, followed by a cross over shim then stiffen up the stack from there....testing will tell you if you making progress.
On the MV you could use a light face shim with 1mm to .5mm of lift, just build a small stack behind the face shim.
The other option would be to add sub-tanks, which may help to increase and decrease the air gap.

 

[GMP]

With a low float MV a .1 shim will get beat in short order and become a high maintanence item. I have a .15 @ 1.4mm and it works great in the woods, if I did moto or more whoops I'd experiment with less. The biggest issue is the rebound, as you can see even the bleed on the stock checkplate setup will really limit rebound control.

Subtanks work great on WP43s, but I never felt a need to go that far with the Zokes. I suspect the air pressure ramps up faster in the WP. I can see where they would help make the fork more versitle though.

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

Did a short testride yesterday in the RAIN... Big improvement! Ran this rebound stack:

22
22
19
19
17
15
15

going to expand it and try again. Had rebound full tight.

Removed the bleed shim on the CV and the float is 0.9mm

Going on vacation a week, only testing will be in my head for the coming 7 days.

 

[Klausen]

same problem look here

http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7087&page=5

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

i see you use a 2stage BV stack. Have you run a 3 prior and if u have how does it feel, 2vs3 pros and cons?

I plan to stiffen up the 2nd stage leaving 1 as is. Have u tried with bleed shim against the face of the BV?

 

[Klausen]

i see you use a 2stage BV stack. Have you run a 3 prior and if u have how does it feel, 2vs3 pros and cons?

I plan to stiffen up the 2nd stage leaving 1 as is. Have u tried with bleed shim against the face of the BV?

the original BV stack were a 3 stage,
my experience isn't so great I never go back to 3 I don't know what happens when I changed back to 3 stage,
some people here recommend me the 2 stage I don't know why
It works good but on a cross track last weekend the fork feels a little bit to stiff on HS
when you use BV bleed shims the fork is to soft in LS I believe
the original BV stack was like that see the whole post I send you