2011 300 SixDays Set Up Advice

[AZRickD]

My club mate got his first couple of rides on his 2011 SixDaze 300. Zokes front, Ohlins rear. The static and race sag appears to be in the ball park. He had to adjust the shock clickers to slow the damping down a bit. Other than that, he hasn't touched it.

He's 210 pounds without gear. A very fast 30A racer. We don't have much in the way of roots here. We have rocks, and more rocks and various types of sand wash.

What would you experienced suspension guys recommend for his sag and clicker settings? Are the stock springs good enough for his weight? Any revalving recommendations? How long for the new suspenders to break in?

 

[GMP]

We never got an answer on the spring rates used in the new bikes. Valving is a guess as well. Assuming the fork valving is similar to the '07 - '08 Zokes, HS rebound will be too light. Clickers are of limited value in fixing this. The shock is also a guess but no stock GG I've ridden was bad in rocks, just had room for improvement. Just start with rebound about 10 - 12 out F&R, Comp a little looser, and avoid too much preload on the rear spring trying to make a sag number. Guys with the bikes will soon be able to tell us more than we know now. Good Luck!

 

[matt_tidball]

I am the guy with the new 2011 300 Sixdays. I weigh 215, 235 with gear. After 2 days and 4.5 hours of time on the bike I have backed out compression on both front and rear to almost 0. The rebound is about a few clicks from in. I also had to take half a turn out of rear spring preload on the trail to calm down the rear end. The biggest differance came from from backing off the spring preload a bit. this also decreased the head jitters at high speeds. I found it strange for a person of my weight and riding level (A vet) to have to back off a stock bike so far. Who is this bike set for stock? I still have yet to use all the suspension in G outs or jumps. The suspension works well now everywhere now except in sharp hits and mid sized rolling rocks. I suspect it could use some shim stack work on the initial stroke to calm the sharp feel. I hope this helps out, and I would also appreciate any feed back.

 

[GMP]

Matt,

Overall I would guess the thing is valved seriously stiff if a fast heavy A guy can't use all the travel, and again, '11 valving and especially on the SixDays is likely different from what we have seen before. Your preload observation is dead on, avoid more than 10mm on the shock spring, the sag #s on GGs tend to be on the higher side of what you think is normal. The forks biggest problem IMO is the lack of adequate HS rebound, making it feel like a compression problem. The '07 at least had a strange three stage comp stack that worked better than it should have. The fork is excellent when tweaked a bit. Talk to Les at LTR. Do you know what springs are in the bike?

 

[Troy F collins]

Yes seems set up very stiff


My 2011 EC250 is actually pretty calm......uses all the stroke no prob....perfect at low speeds..roots,logs etc..this is the sachs's set up though..I'm 6'1 200lbs...maybe a bit loose at higher speeds...but I havent touched a clicker yet


I'd give it more break in in time with the clickers backed out....sound like the 6 days has a more aggressive set up ...?

 

[GMP]

Seems so, but the knowledge base on the Zokes is quite developed and they are outstanding when tuned correctly.

 

[widebear]

I am the guy with the new 2011 300 Sixdays. I weigh 215, 235 with gear. After 2 days and 4.5 hours of time on the bike I have backed out compression on both front and rear to almost 0. The rebound is about a few clicks from in. I also had to take half a turn out of rear spring preload on the trail to calm down the rear end. The biggest differance came from from backing off the spring preload a bit. this also decreased the head jitters at high speeds. I found it strange for a person of my weight and riding level (A vet) to have to back off a stock bike so far. Who is this bike set for stock? I still have yet to use all the suspension in G outs or jumps. The suspension works well now everywhere now except in sharp hits and mid sized rolling rocks. I suspect it could use some shim stack work on the initial stroke to calm the sharp feel. I hope this helps out, and I would also appreciate any feed back.

Turning the clickers full soft will only make the forks harsher. The compression clickers only work the low speed circuit, more turns out means more oil bypasses the shim stack and you blow through the low speed circuit into the mid. Whatever the stock spring rates are in there they are gonna be to soft!.46 fronts with 5 mm preload and 5.7 year is your target with 30 mm free sag rear. I dont care how fast your buddy says you are if you set up properly you'll be faster. If your not bottoming its a oil height thing.

 

[moto9]

Stock Marz and Sachs valving is pretty far off IMHO, if you ride anything with roots, rocks, high speed bumps...the fork is way too harsh and no amount of clicker turning will fix that.
I have said this over and over again, the suspension needs re-valving and a proper spring rate for the rider.
The bike is night and day difference, I posted this in another thread that I recently road a friends 09 300 with stock suspension...I gave it back a few turns down the trail...it was horrible...I couldn't ride it.
My advice to anyone that wants a great handling, fun to ride, down right trail killer...forget the bling, spend the money and get the suspension fixed "properly fixed"

 

[widebear]

I rode a 09 ec 250 with stock sachs and thought it was pretty darn good. In fact I would not revalve just springs and oil height.

 

[moto9]

I rode a 09 ec 250 with stock sachs and thought it was pretty darn good. In fact I would not revalve just springs and oil height.

Well, you and I may ride very different terrain, or I may be spoiled with how well mine works in comparison.
But the fact is our two bikes work very differently, mine is plush and floats over the roots and my friends 09 hammered the hell out of me + some major deflecting on the same trail section.

 

[AZRickD]

I'd always recommend LTR or one of our local Euro-centric suspension tuners to do a proper re-valve -- but as a quick fix to his mid-stroke spike (exacerbated by having the clickers most of the way out), would lowering the fork oil level soften things up for him?

However, wouldn't that created a fork/shock imbalance?

 

[widebear]

I'd always recommend LTR or one of our local Euro-centric suspension tuners to do a proper re-valve -- but as a quick fix to his mid-stroke spike (exacerbated by having the clickers most of the way out), would lowering the fork oil level soften things up for him?

However, wouldn't that created a fork/shock imbalance?

Only heavier springs and turning the clickers in will get rid of the midstroke spike and plush up the front end, with min pre load applied on fork springs. Even if the valving is changed you will still need the proper rate springs, natural law. I can assure whatever springs came in those forks, they will be to light.

 

[AZRickD]

I can attest that my '05 Ohlins/Zokes had a mid-stroke spike until I resprung it one or two levels heavier (to 220 pounds with gear).

 

[twowheels]

2010 Sachs Spring Rates

EC/XCs with Sachs legs came with 0.42 forks springs (per Enduro Engineering and GoFasters) and 5.2 shock springs (labeled on spring).

Race sag was perfect on my 250 out of the box [190# in street clothes], and the chassis was balanced so I left the .42s in up front.

Residual fork mid-stroke harshness, after getting the proper spring for your weight, can be quelled with a rather simple mid-valve mod.

 

[moto9]

Agreed, proper springs are a must, with heavier riders weight the fork is most likely riding pretty deep into the mid-stroke already and that adds to the harshness.
If you really want to enjoy the best the GG can offer, properly setting up the suspension is a must...and well worth the $$
Do yourself a favor just bite the bullet and get it done right!
I have ridden both stock and a LT re-valved bike and they were night and day.

The other issue to note, adding stiffer springs alone with no re-valve will IMHO make things worse because the fork and shock rebound circuits are under damped and you'll end up with a pogo stick.

 

[AZRickD]

You'd think Gas Gas would have Marzocchi and Sachs do something about that under-damping thing that's been lurking for all these years.

Do the Ohlins/Ohlins in the Nambotin work better out of the box?

 

[GMP]

They go out of their way to reduce rebound in the fork! Bleed shims, bleed holes, not much of a stack to speak of. Its not a Zoke thing its a GG thing. Maybe its a Euro thing, feed back from their riders? Husky Zokes I've been into are not setup like this, although they seem to feel worse than GG Zokes with OEM valving. Despite this, the Zoke fork bikes at least work way better than a stock KTM in the rocks, thats for sure.

 

[AZRickD]

You're saying that GG tells the suspender manufacturer to make them this way and have been doing so for half the decade? Or is GG taking the innards and doing something undampened with them?

 

[GMP]

Well, they (GG) are responsable for the valving specs whether the forks are valved at Marzocchi (almost sure) or in the GG factory. They are not going to take whatever Marzocchi decides to give them as far as valving.

 

[AZRickD]

So it *is* GG's fault that they've had damping issues all these years.

LTR treated mine with some re-valving (mostly compression for rocks) and 10wt fork oil.