4 Stroke GasGas questions

[Trailrider]

What is the problem with GasGas and 4 stroke motors? They have had since about 2002 to put fuel injection on a Suzuki DR400 motor and they still haven't got it right. They have had just as long to build their own 250 4stroke, what's the problem? I love my 2001 300 and have had several other 2 stroke Gassers but the 4 stroke doesn't get it. If you can't consistently start a 4 stroke with the kickstarter don't even put it on the market.
I guess there are a few out there who love their FSE but seems like weak batteries, poor connections, bad relays, FI problems, ect are a constant problem. They should just put a carb on them and be done with it.
I'm not a 4 stroke guy but it would be nice to hear something positive about the FSE over the long term, not just when they are fresh off the showroom floor.
Tell me I'm all wet, seriously, since all I ever read is about someone's FSE having mechanical problems.
Trailrider

 

[East_TN_GG]

I know what you mean man. I really want to get the 4t to compliment my 300 but I also want it to be a great bike like its little brother.

 

[jhendr3702]

yeah... there is a brand new 02 fse 400/450 setting in the back shop right beside where my 300 was.
if i thought for a minute it would be ok..... i would own it...

 

[Nick]

My 07 450 with 5-6k miles on it has been trouble free as any bike out there. My 05 had cold start issues that we fixed as well as the easy to change relay problem, otherwise no problems anymore than any other bike. I dont have to change jets, mix gas, etc. I think that if you were riding one you would change your views on it.

 

[jostby]

I guess there are a few out there who love their FSE but seems like weak batteries, poor connections, bad relays, FI problems, ect are a constant problem. They should just put a carb on them and be done with it.

"Weak Batteries".... go through almost all of the "my 4T won't start" threads and you will see that a battery in good condition is a requirement. They need to be maintained when not being used. The last bike my kid had was a Yamaha TTR230 and if the battery wasn't good on it you were NOT going to get it started (even though it would crank over just fine). Newer bikes with electronic ignition and especially fuel injection can not be ignored during their "off time". A battery will happily spin an engine while almost being junk but if the electronics don't have the required voltage (amperage is what spins the starter) that needs to be available it is not going to start.
One of these days I am going to get one of the 4T models, and it will be an older one (read inexpensive!) because the owner will have fought the battery issue for several years and gave up. Geez people, go to a battery store and spend $35 bucks on an off brand battery and you will be surprised.
But that being said it does sound like if you want to use the kickstart that is a whole other issue but if you search this forum people have that figured out too.

 

[Trailrider]

Nick,
I would like to have a good view of the FSE model, I just haven't heard many positive stories. I would expect an 07 model to be improved, they had 5 years to get out the kinks. An 05 model should not have a cold start issue, you are a dealer, most of us would have to take the bike and travel a good ways, then leave the bike just to fix one small issue like that. The relay you mention, why don't they just get it right from the beginning.
I would not buy a bike that doesn't start with a kickstarter, there are too many threads just on here where their FSE won't even start in the driveway, let alone if you were out somewhere.
I am a big time GasGas supporter, the FSE line just needs help, putting in a Yamaha motor is not the answer, it's really an admission they can't get their own 250 to work right and they have had plenty of time, the needs more development line doesn't cut it.

 

[GMP]

First, there are no new 4-strokes that are perfect. They are better but still can be a PIA to kickstart after a crash. Even modern road bikes are choked by EPA/Euro3 standards and do not perform the way they should. The new FSRs are rated as very good bikes by those that have them. FWIW, if you have a new estart bike and you do not store it on a battery tender, your just kidding yourself, like not changing the oil. If I let my Ducati sit long enough it wouldn't start either. Portions of the system are always "hot" even with the key off, and this will eventually drain the battery. Thats life with EFI.

GasGas is a tiny company compared to the big five. If you have any engineering background particularly related to mfg. you would understand what a difficult task is is to meet the desired performance spec for a competitive product, while maintaining reliability, cost, and weight. KTM didn't do it on there own, they bought Husaberg and refined the design for reliability and higher production numbers. The Japaneese can throw $$ at any problem with an army of engineers. It takes a certain amount of development man hours to release a quality finnished product, how does the little guy do that in the same timeframe? A 250F in particular is a hugh engineering challenge. Look at all the issues with some of the Jap 250Fs. If GasGas released one too soon problems like that could bury them.

 

[cal_tony]

I complained about the EFI awhile back and thought it might be better to just go with the 39mm FCR carb. So far I haven't done it myself but both my 450s seem to run much better during the summer so I'm a bit happier now. I have a few extra ECUs and regardless how the trim is setup they all perform differently than the other.

Right now I've been thinking about valves. Seems like they like separate and dis troy the head. A lot of talk bout this on the DRZ section of the TT site. Some 2 piece valves are better than others and it seems to be related to where the 2 pieces come together. Some are connected at the neck some are further up the valve. I have 2 heads with exhaust valves broken off at the neck.

This gives me some concern.

Tony

 

[mountain thumper]

i agree trailrider. its been plenty of time. however its also true that if your battery isnt at peak performance, its garbage. and i know from experience, if you dont tend your battery it can and will cause a variety of problems, with the relay(s) starter, switches etc. and a battery tonder is around 20 bux, so i dont see why many people have dead batteries.

so cal it makes you wonder what the engineers were thinking " hey, this unit is designed to be mashed on by hard steel several hundred times a minute.. i know, lets make it from 2 peices, itll be twice as strong that way!"

 

[coolum74]

I have been really happy with mine...but after reading this thread

 

[bergerhag]

I too have the '05 FSe, bougth as a leftover, brand new in dec 2006. I have gotten somewhere in the neighbourhood of 300 h pure enduro riding out of it so far. Never have i needed to adjust the valve play. Never even changed piston. It runs really strong. I did have starting issues at one point, it started fine with the kickstarter, but not with the e-start. That was related to a problem with the atarter motor which made it consume too much power, leaving ECU without.

Yes, the increased complexity of a fourstroke makes it perhaps a little more vulnerable than a 2-stroke, but as for the Gasgas FSe, the pro's outweights the con's. This bike runs PERFECT no matter environmental conditions; freezing, hot, humid, dry, high alt, low alt.. How many of you two.strokers has that for free? How much time have you spent discussing needles and jets and what not, and not to mention all the time needed for testing and re-jetting?


Ok, the model have had its share of problems, sure, but I'd say they are sorted out. Kick starting it is a matter of learning the proper technique.

Somehow it always seems to be the two-stroke owners that have issues with the FSE reliability, not the FSE owners themselves

 

[MattR]

Both the GG 2T and 4T bikes have had issues... just like all bikes. I would not say the 4T bikes have been worse than the 2T bikes... just different issues at times.

The problem with internet forums (all of them, not just ours) is that people post threads when they have bike issues. Majority of threads are related to problem-solving. Occassionally, you get the "what a great bike this is" thread. From an outsiders viewpoint, it looks like every bike would explode at any given moment. When in reality, a little care tends to solve the minor issues. True, there are also lemons with any mechanical device.

I have to give GasGas credit for being early adopters of the EFI. Many Jap and other Euro companies are now just coming on board. I would say overall that GG 4T bikes are equal to any other brand... as are the GG 2T bikes.