45mm Zoke performance

[widebear]

You have not nor has Les personally seen my forks. I had them apart on the bench in front of me. I saw no indication of a quality coating on the damper rod.You think I'm making this up to spite you? I'm not! Tell you what, next time I service the forks I'll post up some pictures. If you feel that is inappropriate or slanderous to gasgas you can pull em. I'll understand and accept you have your reasons.

 

[GMP]

Which parts of your fork are not hard coated?

Bringing up the Cannondale Ohlins was simply to point out that valving is of course a bigger factor than superior component quality on OEM performance. You can compare a 10 yr old Ohlins to a new Zoke, because a new Zoke is basically like an '02 Zoke, if that makes sense. I've had them apart together on the bench.

Jeff,

I talked to Les about this too and agree they should be. Mine were clearly worn through any coating to a high luster, so I had them redone in black T3. Very nice now.

 

[webmaster]

Widebear,

There are hard coatings that are clear and I am very sure you are misinterpreting what you are looking at. It's not kashima, but that's not the only "quality hardcoating" out there.

jeff

 

[thumperrider1]

As someone who has a downpayment on a new 2011 six days 250 and picking it up on the 12th, does anyone have any positive things to say about the forks on this bike for east coast tight singletrack? My local tuner has done a few zokes and primarily services WP,KYB, etc.........Can anyone offer some valving changes and mods that can be done to make them work? I'm 150 with no gear and planned on 5.0 rear and 4.0 front springs. All singletrack riding. Fast C, back of the pack B rider.

 

[mrkartoom]

As someone who has a downpayment on a new 2011 six days 250 and picking it up on the 12th, does anyone have any positive things to say about the forks on this bike for east coast tight singletrack? My local tuner has done a few zokes and primarily services WP,KYB, etc.........Can anyone offer some valving changes and mods that can be done to make them work? I'm 150 with no gear and planned on 5.0 rear and 4.0 front springs. All singletrack riding. Fast C, back of the pack B rider.

If you want someone down east call Bill Pemberton @ CCycle. He's up in CT and has a good bit of knowledge/experience with these forks. Then there is Les/LTR out west. Both know what they need.

When you get it dialed in you'll probably jump immediately to a Fast B, back of the pack A rider.

 

[gasser]

As someone who has a downpayment on a new 2011 six days 250 and picking it up on the 12th, does anyone have any positive things to say about the forks on this bike for east coast tight singletrack? My local tuner has done a few zokes and primarily services WP,KYB, etc.........Can anyone offer some valving changes and mods that can be done to make them work? I'm 150 with no gear and planned on 5.0 rear and 4.0 front springs. All singletrack riding. Fast C, back of the pack B rider.

I have an 07gasser that I brought new 4 years ago and really like my 45 ZOOKs for tight singletrack here in Tennessee. I just serviced mine for the third time (they have 600 hours on them) and everything looked fine. The black coating is partially gone from one leg but that was probably due to over tightening the triple clamp pinch bolts back when the bike was new (when you get your bike loosen the pinch bolts and retighten to GMPs specifications). The coating on the my other leg is fine.

 

[biggstr6]

Jeff , If I had ridden mine I'd give you some feedback ,but I haven't even fired it up as of yet.

Mountain Suzuki used a guy named Ulrich to do mine , but as I said I havent ridden it yet . He is the same guy that did Daniel morrisons though.

Allen schaffer (ASR) said he could do it if he had the bike to ride to see what it was doing

All this sounds scary ,but really my 08 is stock and its not bad.

 

[GMP]

gasser,

600 hrs and 3 services is a typo right?

Mine go 20 hrs between service. The coating on the stanctions is like new @ 133 hrs.

Enough panic already, the fork can be made to work excellent for the eastern woods.

 

[mrkartoom]

. . . the fork can be made to work excellent for the eastern woods. . .

The very words told me by the tuners I talked to prior to purchase.

 

[mhoward]

This is Brent Martell posting on Matt's computer. My damper rod is not coated. Two tuners and myself have had the forks apart more times than I can count. There is no internal component that is coated.

The one good thing about forums is that it can at times prepare a person to accept or not the inherent risks of new bike ownership. I may have purchased the gg even with the fork issue's but I would have wasted a lot less time if I just knew what to look for. Additionally, not one single person said the gg in gerneral is junk, quite the opposite actually. zoke and gg can do better and should do better in this department of the bike performance. The question is if someone is not happy with their forks should they not get a complete answer to what they can do to correct it? I say absolutely, and this is the place to get that info, good, bad, and ugly. Honest as it can be.

Ride on. Hoping my forks work well for me Sunday. Praying praying praying

 

[webmaster]

The wear surfaces of the cartridge should have some sort of hard coating on it. It is "clear hardcoat" - basically a form of clear anodize - a very thin clear film over metal. What did you expect to see? It can have no color to it - and if you don't know what you are looking at - yeah, looks like metal/aluminum. It is not black or grey etc. that your tuner might expect to see.

I am hoping that this is just confusion due to lack of familiarity with this fork.

jeff

p.s. The above applies to the zoke 45 fork - the zoke 50 closed chamber race fork can have a black hard coat.....

p.p.s. The only thing I would be concerned about is the torque on your lower triple clamp pinch bolts. Do not over-torque and go in very small increments up to spec to evenly tighten the bolts. The wall thickness of the upper fork tube is thin in this location and can deform.

 

[GMP]

I wonder what is the minimum torque you can get away with? I suspect this would be dependent on the surfaces of the parts. My new anodized fork uppers got me thinking, as they are a little more rough on the outside from the original coating being stripped from the OEM surface with the machine lines cut into it (the inside is fine). If you were to bead blast or somehow texture the inner clamp surfaces, friction would increase and perhaps allow a lower torque. I'm trying down to 8Nm on the end bolts and just seating the center snug, that's with antiseize. We'll see if there is any slippage.

FWIW, the WPs on my friends KTM are always slipping even at the recommended torque. Any moderate fall that catches the bars will tweak the front end to the point of requiring a full trailside loosening and realignment. This never happens on the GG, even my big season ending get off did not tweak the front end.

A good Les question.

 

[Mark Berg - CPD]

answers

"what we have here is a failure to communicate"

I don't get much time to take notice of all the threads but this one was brought to my attention today by Clay, asking me for answers. I don't have the correct answers to what if any internal changes were made to the marzocchi fork for 2011 but I have already emailed Spain to get some for you guys. I do know this,

Suspension settings and tuning is a major aftermarket player in the dirtbike world. Of course most tuning experts are going to find flaws with OEM, no matter the brand, its their job, its why they are in business.

Before switching to Sachs in 2009, the marzocchi 45 was in most opinions a very good basic platform that could easily be tuned or ran with some clicker changes. I am not a suspension expert, mostly a novice, but we had a set of 45mm forks here done by Drew Smith at WER that made even the worst out of shape rider (ME) feel like i could ride as fast as i wanted to go. My partner Steve LOVED it, Brian Hasslen LOVED it we then sold it to a guy and that guy HATED it.

The 2011 now has more owners which means alot more different tastes in suspension, alot more opinions..some just stronger than others These bikes are made and designed in Spain with for the most part a European rider doing the testing. Desert feel? not at all. Tight eastern woods rider? Not quite, when you say to a Euro rider, "our trails are tight" they say "ya whatever, i don't need barkbusters" then go crying home with banged up hands.

Long story short, for those few with very strong opinions about the suspension there are 5 times as many that haven't made their own opinion about their own suspension and what they like and will now have a head start in their minds about the feel before even throwing a leg over one.

Talk forums are great avenues of conversation, but all are still opinions, if you have a strong one so be it but perhaps be more constructive and email to Clay or I your concerns in a private email and lets move forward. Perhaps "widebear" got a set that is incorrect? Lets find the answers first.

In the meantime, I hope to get all the specs about the 2011 45mm Zoke fork from Spain in the next few days and will relay them to all as soon as i can.

"can't we all just get along"

 

[GMP]

Good points.

Also consider that a modified setup, that might please a few select guys, is likely overall worse for the masses.

This one is beaten down far enough. If you have a setup that YOU developed and works in specific conditions feel free to contribute. That's positive for everyone. DO NOT post valving data that a tuner making a living has provided to you. Its just not ethical IMO and will be dealt with.

 

[dublin]

I have a 2011 250 with the ohlin and zoke set up and i love the set up it took a while to bed in and set up but its fine now i had the 09 six day with the sachs and hated it this is my eight gas gas several of them had the zokes never had any problems never had them revalved and me and my mates rode them standard at the six days years back and loved them so just to say most Irish and UK customers i know are delighted to get rid of the sachs and have the zokes back give them a chance

 

[webmaster]

To be fair and to keep this thread from meandering - I'd like to give Mark (wannabe) some time to get the feedback he needs from GasGas Spain.

Unless I hear any objections via a private message - I would like to close this thread and when Mark is ready to provide feedback from the factory - I can either re-open it or Mark can start a new thread.

A fresh start with a new thread on "zoke 45 - valving that works for me" - would accommodate where glenn suggests the conversation can go - e.g. discussion of valving specs that work without divulging vendor specs, etc..

jeff

 

[GMP]

Glad they work for you, thanks for the positive review. From being on this forum for so long I get the impression that a lot (not all) of European riders don't go as far as revalving their suspension. Would you say this is true? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe its because the stock setup is very close for the masses there. Like Mark said its different here. The US is a big country, quite diverse in terrain. Even some relatively small areas are quite different, like northern and southern NJ and eastern and western WA. Also, we as Americans tend to be a bit more demanding, just our nature.

 

[Tlineman]

Just got my first ride in on my 11 EC300 today and I must say that these forks are harsh on the initial stroke. I'm going to give them about ten hours or so before I spend any money on them to give them some time to break in. It seemed like I felt every rock and small bump through the handlebars, rides quite high in the stroke (which I like). I didn't even use roughly the bottom 3" of travel. I'm a 215lb slow AA rider too. The motor is magic though, this thing climbs like a goat on a crack binge.

 

[gasser]

That's a great line - I'm going to use it myself if that's ok.

 

[dublin]

Regarding revalving suspension in Europe i think its fair to say that most club riders dont mess with the standard set up much i am 50 this year and the 09 gas gas is the only enduro bike i had done the only other bikes i had done were motocross bikes converted for enduro use as the forks on these can be harsh but this is just my opinion but its very intresting reading how you guys seem to revalve and tweek everything maybe i missed out all these years to late now anyway still happy with my 2011 gasser great website keep up the good work