A Hard question to ask.. but its been on my mind

[FFRDave]

First, I want to say that I love my Gas gasses.


Now for the hard question.

Did I say I love my Gassers ?? Ok Here goes... Why do I have to buy a LTR PV cover, and carb jet kit? Why do I need to improve on the bike by buying real chain guards? Why do I have to modify my kickstand retraction spring? Why do I have to have the squishband adjusted with every bike?

The real question is... Why doesnt Gas gas just engineer a bigger PV cover and make it a stock componet of the machine? Why dont they just change the pivot point of the kickstand? Why dont the people at Gas gas experiment with jet needles until they get something that does what the LTR needle does? Why not make the heads with a tighter squishband clearences?

Another thing that I am wondering about (which may answer my question) is do other manufacturers bikes have to get similar (or different) mods just to become acceptable. A case in point is that the stock pipe and silencer from my Honda CR 250 has been hanging in my garage brand new since I bought the bike in 99. The suspension has been totaly replaced by Race Tech componets. Still, I have never bought a larger PV cover for my Honda or had to modify the squishband. Does KTM have a whole list of instantly desirable upgrades?

I dont really mind the upgrades I have to add, but it has been something I have wondered. I am glad we have RBD and LTR and the rest. These aftermarket people who inovate new improvements to an already superior machine are a great help to we who want just a little more. I think that this websight and Smackover have really raised the awairness of what could really be done to these bikes.

 

[roostafish]

Think of it this way. You won't have to get your suspension fixed. KTM, you will, plus the jet kit, for more money mind you. Oh, and that squish band mod is a good idea for any brand.

My first GG, a 200, got the squish mod, plus an INCH taken out of the pipe, plus the flywheel lightened and timing advanced. It was a HOT potato. It was too 125 like though, and I put a stock pipe back on it, and a stock flywheel. It ran strong like that. I think sometimes we go too far. It had no PV cover, and I figured out the jetting with no help. These things are great, but bottom line is, they're luxuries.

 

[HydroDog]

If you think owning a GG is a hard question, you shoud have tried owning a 01 Husaberg.
Most of the things you listed are just add ons. They are not needed for reliabilty just for different taste in performance. As for the jetting I would also sell my bikes running a little rich if I was the manufacturer. I would rather have my customers rejet for where they live than have them die from running lean.
The kickstands though are a euro standard which sucks. Just ask any Ducati owner who's bike has fallen over.

 

[TooFastTim]

The sidestand thing is deliberate and is required by EU regulations. Dunno 'bout the US.

 

[Nick]

Not evryone changes the things you did. Dont need the PV cover, jetting is easy, the chain guide works so why change it, never changed the squish either and our results at the races say it works as is.

 

[GMP]

The PV cover is a very subtle change. Its a very minor tuning tweak not a fix for a factory flaw.

The squish mod is applicable to all 2-stroke bikes. The clearances are large to deal with questionable fuel in different parts of the world. Same with jetting.

The chainguide is OK, better than other OEM guides that bend and do not return. The LTR part is unique and a good idea if your regularly hammering through rocks and hitting it on a regular basis.

 

[FFRDave]

I just had to hear it.

I knew that all of those mods had reasons, some important and some more trivial.

My cousins Gasser is bone stock and it was the first gasser that caused me to fall in love and get one of my own the very next weekend. I drove over 500 miles and spent a little over seven grand, but it was worth every mile and every penny.

I like to have everything as perfect and as fast as I can get it. I like knowing that my stuff is the best of the best. I (as I said above) am very glad that you guys were here to help me in that mission to have the best of the best.

Thanks a ton.

 

[barkeater]

Not evryone changes the things you did. Dont need the PV cover, jetting is easy, the chain guide works so why change it, never changed the squish either and our results at the races say it works as is.

I agree.

None of those upgrades are "required", they are "desired". Out of the crate, there is nothing wrong with a stock Gas Gas and it will run circles around most other off-road bikes.

I think 4-5 years ago the factory took more input from the field. Now they are more focused on keeping up production, so R&D has suffered a bit.

The US market saw a lot of on the fly development to it's models under Gas Gas North America and saw little or none under Gas Gas Motors of America and Dixie. I think that is about to change with the current import team.

That said, besides KTM and BMW, Gas Gas probably has the quickest, most agile R&D in the off-road industry. They also have the smallest purse out of the three.

When we get distribution stabilized in the US, I think we'll see some wild develpments on the GG race front that should transfer over to the stock bikes again.

 

[LAWMAN]

my GG has taken way less time & $ to set up than my KTMs did, even accounting for what had already been done to it before I bought it. it does have a few little things that I find annoying, but it's a machine built by humans.

 

[SpeedyManiac]

They fixed the side stand for 07 and beyond. No kickstand of death! My shins appreciate it.

The PV cover isn't necessary, it just adds bottom end for those of us that like a little more down low. Chain guide isn't necessary either. The stocker works very, very well. FIM doesn't like it though, so I tossed an LTR one on for tech inspection. That said most Gassers passed with the stock one.

I haven't done the squish on any of my bikes and they run just fine (well, the 250 is lacking compression at the moment :S).

No bike is perfect out of the box. No matter what I always have to add:
-bars
-steering damper
-rad guards
-skid plate
-bark busters
-usually get suspension done
-anything else for ergos

I rarely do anything to the engine. Maybe the LTR powervalve cover and jetting. That's it.

Oh, and the stock GasGas pipe is great. I've also used the FMF gnarly but prefer the stocker.

 

[barkeater]

Oh, and the stock GasGas pipe is great. I've also used the FMF gnarly but prefer the stocker.

Have you tried the Doma? A friend of mine put one on his XC 250 and it made him want his mommy.

 

[SpeedyManiac]

For 07 the stock pipe is essentially the same as the Doma. I had a Doma on my 200. Good pipe, just too thin. I crushed it along with an Eline pipe guard. FYI, eline carbon fiber is terrible. Looks cool but offers next to no protection. Hyde racing makes way better products.

 

[blitz11]

I wouldn't say that GG doesn't focus as much on R&D as they did before. That's not my impression. In the past few years, for example,

1. Redesigned FSR motors, and introduced a 515. Not a huge undertaking, but given their production volume, a sizable effort. They were also first (i think) with fuel injection on their four strokes.

2. If you recall a few weeks ago, GG introduced a 4T, sidevalve Trials bike. THAT took some R&D. A lot.

During my factory tour, they took us through the manufacturing area, the race shop, and the R&D (but didn't show us the 4T sidevalve engine!). They are refining, but still doing R&D. When you're already good, getting better is less obvious.

BTW, the factory tour article link doesn't work anymore (if anyone cares).

 

[barkeater]

FYI, eline carbon fiber is terrible. Looks cool but offers next to no protection. Hyde racing makes way better products.

Amen. I have an e-line and when I took it off to give it a good cleaning, I was dismayed by the number of small dings in the pipe, granted they'd probably be bigger dings without it, but not as much protection as I expected. CF is to brittle to protect something hollow. I've been waiting for a reason to call Jay at Hyde and get one. I want to dump the aluminum skid plate too.

Can't justify it yet... maybe I should buy a new pipe to help guide my logic...

 

[barkeater]

2. If you recall a few weeks ago, GG introduced a 4T, sidevalve Trials bike. THAT took some R&D. A lot.

Perhaps they are just focusing all of their vision and limited budget on the 4t trial bike right now, since the 2 stroke enduros seem to be doing dandy.

They are refining, but still doing R&D. When you're already good, getting better is less obvious.

True, small tweaks aren't as noticeable as major revisions (and I don't consider new plastic or seats to be a major revision). They have been tweaking the bikes every two years since 2000 and when you put a '99 next to an '08 you can definetly see the progression and improved workmanship.

 

[GMP]

The 2-stroke platform is mature, so its more evolutionary changes than revolutionary changes (like an alloy frame for example). KTM has changed a lot more, including frames and shock angles and we know that while appearing to upgrade a lot more year to year, the net result is not there yet. What GG does good is keep their eye on the ball.

Most of the mods I did were on my '03. Good bike but the least favorite of my three 250s. It needed more low end pull and the heavy ignition made it feel worse. The '07 needs nothing but protection and personal preferance changes.

 

[eff]

Amen. I have an e-line and when I took it off to give it a good cleaning, I was dismayed by the number of small dings in the pipe, granted they'd probably be bigger dings without it, but not as much protection as I expected. CF is to brittle to protect something hollow. I've been waiting for a reason to call Jay at Hyde and get one. I want to dump the aluminum skid plate too.

Can't justify it yet... maybe I should buy a new pipe to help guide my logic...

I think it is still way better than the cheap aluminum guards. I was getting a tom of little dings in my pipe from the tip overs (yeah I'm short) that would happen nearly every ride. Of course that doesn't happen as much since I lowered it. I agree that it really isn't going to help if you slam a rock real bad while moving.

 

[barkeater]

I was getting a tom of little dings in my pipe from the tip overs (yeah I'm short) that would happen nearly every ride.

I'm short too. Everyone I ride with is always amazed - I seldom fall over while we're moving, but everytime we stop, I fall over. Just like the Laugh-In guy on the trike.

 

[widebear]

What a pleasure it is to ride a gasgas. After years of converted Jap mx'ers its such a pleasure to have a bike where jetting,spring rates and armour are my only concerns.Now I spend more time riding and less tweaking.

 

[bukwheat]

I haven't changed anything on my 06 other than the seat foam and set the sag. I am totally stoked on the stock bike. It runs clean, other than a little spooge and definitely strong enough (I'll never use it to its full potential). Its got good enough
"chug" power and the top end is plenty ample for this super senior "b" rider.

Sure, you could add a bunch of stuff to any bike on the market today and some of them require it, but I think GG is one of the few that don't require it or to a lesser degree, anyway.