Clutch adjustment?

[Arkangel]

Ok so... I am a total newb when it comes to working on bikes (trying to learn!) What I have here is a "new to me" 2003 EC-250 that I just brought home. Everything seems to work fine, but there is some sort of issue with the clutch. I can start the bike in neutral just fine, but as soon as I kick it into 1st gear it jerks and stalls. The only way I can start is to give it throttle and start rolling as soon as I put it in first. Also.. if I try to kickstart it with the lever all of the way in the bike tries to roll instead of starting (Do these bikes only start in neutral??) I dont mean to sound like a complete idiot here, but it is really puzzling me. I have adjusted the cable in every possible way according to the manaul (loosening the locknut.. tightening the adjuster) All I get is lever adjustment. The bike still stalls and jerks no matter how far out I set the lever or the adjuster. I am thinking the fact that it is a hydraulic clutch might have something to do with this? Do these types of clutches require fluid maintenance like a front brake?

Thanks in advance for the tips...

Joseph

 

[seitz64]

clutch

hi heres my thouhts #1 check fluid level #2 clutch master does not have enough pressure to release clutch #3 clutch plates are burnt & warped #4push rod is worn # 5 clutch outer basket is grooved not letting clutch release #6 clutch basket nut is loose!! if it was my bike id ck fluid first if ok ! id ck complete clutch basket assembly for the above if youre not sure of what you found re post and some one will help im sure youll have other replys ! remember no one is as smart as all of us!!! good luck !

 

[cbutler]

I'm no pro wrench but mine did the same thing after I adjusted it wrong. You must adj. both the outside does the lever distance from the bar the one with the lock nut is your free play. I adj. the free play only way to far in and put a scratch in the cylinder had to buy a new one $140 mistake.If you pull the lever in and hold it to the bar for just a second or two then let ti out just a little and it feels like there is nothing there it is leaking, a rebuild kit mite work if the cylinder is not scratched. Hope this helps someone else will probably chime in I'm new hear to good stuff here keep an eye on the for sale forum if you do need a new clutch master cylinder I would look there first.

 

[rpduc]

If there's enough fluid could be just air in the lines. Before doing anything bleed the brakes. Also make sure your slave cylinder is bolted tightly to the case. If it's been a while the fluid should be changed anyway because it gets contaminated after while.

Easiest way I know of to bleed clutches and brakes is a Mighty Vac, a little hand pump vacuum pump that sucks fluid through the system. Duc clutches and rear brakes are notorious for difficulties bleeding and the Mighty Vac usually does the trick.

 

[widebear]

What are you using as gearbox oil? I'm not suggesting thats the cause but to heavy a oil in a cold engine/clima certainly wont help matters.

 

[iancp5]

Arkangel,

First be aware that GasGas clutches have a tendency to drag - not as bad as yours I hasten to add. But they are prone to it. If you are not mechanically minded there are still a couple of simple things you can do. Check you have a nice light gearbox oil. Worth trying an ATF Dexron III oil. If still dragging badly bleed the clutch - this is a pain and requires patience and persistence to do it right and get every bit of air out.

Because GG are prone to drag their clutches a bit it doesn't take a lot for the dragging to become too much and make the bike a pain. If after the above it still drags it's going to have to be a clutch out and inspection for faults such as a warped plate - you need some mechanical ability or a willingness to learn and a truly flat surface. When the clutch is right they drag hardly at all but just the wrong oil can make them drag.

 

[Arkangel]

!

Thanks for the tips... I wanted to post an update and get some more opinions. Today I tried to bleed the clutch, but I didnt have much luck. I removed the master cylinder cover and the fluid level was fine. I loosened the bleeder and pumped the clutch, but it didnt draw any of the fluid out of the Master Cyl. My brother suggested pumping the clutch with the bleeder valve closed, and then loosening it and tightening it again with the clutch lever all of the way in. He said that this is how you do it on cars? The lever still never seemed to have any pull to it, and now the issue is even worse (it jerks really hard if you put it in gear and stalls).

Anyway.. I broke the bleeder valve trying to loosen it so now I have another whole issue... Kindof annoyed, but I guess I dont have many options besides paying $12 for a bleeder valve and trying to find a way to get the other half of the old one out. It will probably be a while before I start playing with the clutch again, but that is where I am out. Either I need a better bleeding technique or there is something else that needs addressing. My brother seems to think that the Master Cyl needs to be replaced, but I am not sure about all of that just yet.

Joseph

 

[cbutler]

Thanks for the tips... I wanted to post an update and get some more opinions. Today I tried to bleed the clutch, but I didnt have much luck. I removed the master cylinder cover and the fluid level was fine. I loosened the bleeder and pumped the clutch, but it didnt draw any of the fluid out of the Master Cyl. My brother suggested pumping the clutch with the bleeder valve closed, and then loosening it and tightening it again with the clutch lever all of the way in. He said that this is how you do it on cars? The lever still never seemed to have any pull to it, and now the issue is even worse (it jerks really hard if you put it in gear and stalls).

Anyway.. I broke the bleeder valve trying to loosen it so now I have another whole issue... Kindof annoyed, but I guess I dont have many options besides paying $12 for a bleeder valve and trying to find a way to get the other half of the old one out. It will probably be a while before I start playing with the clutch again, but that is where I am out. Either I need a better bleeding technique or there is something else that needs addressing. My brother seems to think that the Master Cyl needs to be replaced, but I am not sure about all of that just yet.

Joseph

Easy out for the bleeder valve. Put it in a drill put the drill in reverse crank the drill wide open and stick it in the hole that is already in the bleeder valve. It will come right out.

I would take the clutch master cylinder apart and inspect the cylinder for a scratch

 

[rpduc]

put the drill in reverse crank the drill wide open and stick it in the hole that is already in the bleeder

MAN, I sure wouldn't do that... You might end up with a broken easy out in there too...

But maybe dbutler can elaborate on his technique. Sounds scary to me...

 

[Arkangel]

I am sorry but I dont understand what you mean by a "scratch?" Are you saying that a tiny scratch inside the MC (up by the clutch lever) would ruin the whole system? I dont really know what I am looking for... =/ The "service manual" i have doesnt say anything about the clutch except how to adjust the lever.

Joseph

 

[cbutler]

MAN, I sure wouldn't do that... You might end up with a broken easy out in there too...

But maybe dbutler can elaborate on his technique. Sounds scary to me...

I will try to elaborate the drill in reverse turns the easy out the correct direction.With the drill up to speed when you put it in the hole the threads on the easy out grab and the bleeder/bolt comes right out.It has worked for me for many years but DO NOT BUY CHEAP EASY OUTS.I have some from snapon.

I have learned over the years to not put the smackdown on nuts and bolts.

 

[Arkangel]

Easy out

I am going to try that... I dont really know what an "easy out" is, but I am sure I can find one The bleeder valve isnt in there very tight at all. Another question... Can I order a bleeder valve from another bike that would match this one? I believe its 7mm (my brother said they were pretty universal 8mm on cars?) so maybe I can find one on a different bike? Anyway I am trying not to let this get me down. I almost wanted to sell the GG already, but I havent even had a chance to ride it yet. I am telling myself that stuff like this happens no matter what flavor of bike you ride! I might have had similar issues even if I would have gone with a KDX 220...

 

[cbutler]

I am sorry but I dont understand what you mean by a "scratch?" Are you saying that a tiny scratch inside the MC (up by the clutch lever) would ruin the whole system? I dont really know what I am looking for... =/ The "service manual" i have doesnt say anything about the clutch except how to adjust the lever.

Joseph

A scratch inside the MC or a nick in the seal will not let pressure build up so the rest of the system will not move.

If you have anyone in your area that has a gas gas maybe you could barrow theirs to see if that is the problem.

 

[Arkangel]

GG

Hmmm... I will take it apart tommorow to see if I notice anything funny. I kindof took a leap of faith on this bike (nearest dealer is 3.5 hours away!) so I am pretty much on my own Thanks a ton for the advice.

Oh let me ask something... If the bleeder valve is open, but the MC is open (with fluid) should there be enough pressure in the line to pull the fluid when you squeeze the lever? I cheated when I bled my brakes last time by simply squeezing the lever and continuously pumping fluid. Are you saying that the hydro clutch in this bike is going to require me to make the MC air tight in order to build enough pressure to move the fluid?

Joseph

 

[cbutler]

To bleed the system

1 fill reservoir
2 set cap back on top
3 pull lever and hold
4 crack bleeder valve after fluid comes out tighten valve
5 repeat 3&4 do not let reservoir go dry

fluid should squirt out of valve about 1 inch if working properly.

 

[Arkangel]

!

Hmm.. We tried that method but the fluid was barely coming out at all. I am guessing that for some reason I dont have enough pressure in the line to pull it through. Going to take a look at that MC after work this evening.

Joseph

 

[Arkangel]

Bleeder

Just ordered a 7mm "speed bleeder" to replace the bleeder valve that I broke. Will this work?

Joseph

 

[cbutler]

I do not know give it a try if it threads in I do not see why it wont. Did you get the broke one out?

 

[Arkangel]

broke

Im waiting on my grandad to help me with the broke one. He owns the tools here and he is feeling pretty sick at the moment =/ Would rather have an experienced hand in this than try to do it by myself.

 

[cbutler]

Cool it is always good to know your limitations.

Do not let this get you down these are sweet bikes I have only had mine for a few months and have had "issues" with it by the previous owners but it is well worth it.