Clutch Slave Cyliner - where's that spring go?

[mrkartoom]

Hi guys. Can someone confirm if the spring for the AJP clutch slave cylinder goes inside the slave (between the piston and the housing) or outside between the piston and the engine bearing/over the rod end?

I am having some clutch engagement issues and thought I had it sorted, but not yet. It started when I removed the two rear bolts for the slave to get the front disk off. I wanted some extra room to spin the carb for jetting. I left the front bolt in tight and the slave didn't appear to move at all. When I put it all back together and started the bike back up the clutch felt normal, but after about one minute I noticed the clutch would not disengage unless the lever was on the bar. I normally use one finger to fan the clutch, so with the lever against my knuckles I could gas it and ride around. So first thing i do is run the adjuster in more, which didn't help. So I ran it in again as far as it would go and still have a skosh of freeplay. That still didn't fix it.

A quick chat with the dealer suggested that something got out of alignment when I removed the two bolts. That didn't make sense, but I decided to remove the slave and reinstall, ensuring it was on properly. As soon as I lifted it off the piston popped off and I had a mess on the garage floor. I had the piston and the spring there, but did not see how they were installed. After a little thinking and fitting I decided the spring had to be inside the slave to work - keep the piston/ball bearing pressed against the rod end at all times with the spring pressure, which would be overcome by the clutch springs after release of the lever. So that is how I reinstalled everything. I reverse filled the system, got all the air out, and it felt great, but same damn thing with the clutch engagement again.

So another call to the dealer to verify I had it back together correctly. He called GoFasters and tells me it goes between the piston and the case, which I assume to be the engine. So I pull it apart again and install it that way, even thought I was thinking this can't be right. It went on, but it didn't look right and wouldn't explain why the thing popped apart when I took it apart the first time. I filled the system again and the lever was frozen solid.

It's apart again and before I do anything else can someone verify that I had it right the first time? And, any ideas what is going on with my clutch? This is really strange.

p.s. I have run the adjuster all the way out at the lever, which only makes it worse. This bike has less than 1 hour on it.

 

[stainlesscycle]

spring goes in first, then piston.
easiest way (this is from memory...) this gonna sound kinda goofy, but it works.

make sure adjuster on lever is way out.

remove banjo on slave.. (you don't necessarily have to do this - but if you're gonna change all the fluid, which you might as well...)

turn slave so the bore for the piston faces up. put some fluid in there, while holding finger over banjo hole.. put spring in, put the cylinder in just a little bit. (until the oring makes a seal). carefully turn the slave so the banjo hole faces straight up. squeeze the piston in a little more till fluid squirts out banjo hole. and hold it. tighten banjo, making sure slave stays below banjo. now reverse fill the whole thing carefully to not introduce air into it. (and make sure you hold the piston so it doesn't doesn't pop out. a c-clamp works.). then squeeze the piston in a little more - until your helper sees a little squirt out the master. now there is no air.

it sounds more complex than it is - but it guarantees no air in system. if you try to reverse bleed it on the bike sometimes the pressure plate springs won't allow a good bleed.

and never squeeze the lever till everything is done/back together and installed on bike.

also, did you check the bore and piston to make sure they are smooth and not binding? and when you align the 3 bolts that hold the slave, make sure slave/pisotn is firmly seated in it's postion, or the piston can get cocked. put all bolts in finger tight, then progressively tighten them to torque (i'm guessing around 10ft-lbs)

 

[GMP]

I don't know why they said that, it goes in the slave behind the piston like you had it at first. Installing on the outside will put all the force from the slave piston on the mainshaft bearing. Reinstall the spring and piston, and hold the piston in the fully bottomed position with a small clamp. This minimizes the volume you have to bleed. Remove the bleed nipple and teflon tape the threads so no air is introduced. Back bleed as before, if its difficult to force fluid through, back off the adjuster on the master. Use a large syringe so you do not have to remove and refill. When you think its bled good enough, bleed it more, a lot of small bubbles come out the hole in the master. Installing the slave is a race, you need to get it seated before the spring pops the piston out again. Top off the master so you don't suck air. All should be well. If you still have a problem, I would suspect the slave o-ring was damaged when the piston was reinserted.

The older slaves had a circlip that kept the piston in place.

 

[mrkartoom]

Thanks a lot guys. I knew it had to be right the first time. I'm guessing my dealer misunderstood what they meant by between the piston and "case" and they really meant "slave" case. Who knows maybe I misunderstood him, but I was pretty clear in what I did. Both of you have excellent tips for putting it back together and bleeding it and I will make use of all of them tomorrow when I get back at it. stainless your method makes perfect sense. I'll go by the local Agway first and see if they have a large syringe. I've been using the little KTM squeeze bottles and while they hold plenty of fluid, they are a bit awkward to use with a piece of hose. I've also got a Phoenix pump bleeder for the brakes, but its contaminated with dot5.

GMP I see what you mean about it being a race to get it back on before the piston pops off. Good thing my kids weren't in the garage when I was talking to it. I did check the o-rings on the piston. Mine has 2 of them and they both looked fine with the jeweler's loupes I use. I did find a small, sharp piece of metal in the spring seat on the piston, which I suspect came off the spring. It was trapped below the spring. The spring has some nasty jagged edges on the top and bottom that I will be polishing up before reinstalling.

Love this forum. Thanks!

 

[GMP]

Get a syringe and a piece of plastic tubing that is a snug fit on the nipple. I use big 50cc+ medical syringes, for clutch and brake bleeding. These are great if you have access. You cannot do a proper job with just a squeeze bottle.