Ec250f

T

TooFastTim

New member
Ok ok, I apologise, I hijacked the Chrsitini thread. So here's a thread for the EC250F.

Anybody off to the factory soon? Can they bribe their escorting goons (Manuels?) and grab pics?

I like the idea that it will be 250/350. Personally a 250 is too small for me (and maintenance intensive) and a 400/450 is too big. But a 350 is just right.

The Sherco 250F looks as sweet as a nut I hope the Gasser is as cute.

I don't like the idea of it using a third party engine as a stop gap, and I bet you that motor isn't a TM.

On the personal front I'm off to Aus soon.
 
Better a third party motor to get to market than a prematurely released grenade. If Cannondale concentrated on building a first class frame around an established motor, they might still be around today. I would love to see a GG 250 - 350F motor but not finnish the R&D on one. Look at how many revisions the 450 has gone through. They are playing this one smart, I'm willing to wait.
 
I'd love to see them modify the 4t trials motor (different gearing & more reliability) and put it into the EC frame. That would make the ultimate play bike.
It would also be a win-win situation if Gas Gas did a joint venture with one of the "big 4" and let them do the mods and use the engine in one of their own bikes. They could be required to keep Gas Gas on the clutch covers. The bike would fit nicely in the middle of that big gap between the CRF230 and 250/450 4 strokes. As compact as the engine is a frame could be designed around it that could have a 34 inch seat height for smaller framed riders or easily change to full size with a swap of the sub frame. A bike like this with the reliability and ease of maintenance of the old XRs and a price tag $1000 less than the CRF250 would be an overnight hit.
 
I like the trials motor idea. I also don't have any heartburn over dropping a third party engine in there. Heck, that's where Gas Gas started. If it gains market share, I'm all for it.
 
What a small company like GG absolutely can not afford to do is release a POS just to get it out there, especially in todays economy. A major blunder could bury them.
 
If you want a bike to putt around on then buy a trails bike, you can still race them in h/s and enduros and prob do pretty well ( with a seat mod on it). But GAS GAS is looking to make a bike that can win races and compete in WEC events that is reialable and makes power like a race bike, not a tractor. Im guessing the new 250F is going to be simular to its competitors but with a gas gas frame. Hopefully they make a motor that last and doesnt blow up all the time like those KTM 250f's do. Whatever they do I am sure its going to be good.
 
GAS GAS UNLIMITED said:
Hopefully they make a motor that last and doesnt blow up all the time like those KTM 250f's do. Whatever they do I am sure its going to be good.
Click to expand...

Totally disagree with you here on this one. The KTM 250F motor is a dam good motor and blows up no more than the Jap 250F motors. Maybe it's the sheer quantity of them out there now compared to the Jap stuff and you hear about more failures. The Dirt Rider shootout rated it the best motor of the bunch and commented about when your doing valves and pistons on the Jap bikes your just doing rings on the KTM. Now KTM's newer 450/530 with the split oiling system you can have. Far to many oil related problems with those motors.
 
Les told me he has been into them all, mainly for the MXers in WA state, and the Yamaha is the best as far as reliability / durability goes. From what I've seen locally with friends bikes I'd have to agree. The KTM 250F was real fast when it came out, but also stupid loud. Once it had a decent muffler the advantage was nil. Also, if it does go bang and parts are not in Ohio, likely your going to miss a lot of riding. KTM has a great distributor\dealer network, but backorders can be very long.
 
A good riding buddy of mine has tore his CRF250X down twice, once for valves ate a piston and the other the crank let go...ouch! He rides it bouncing off the rev limiter all day long:eek: I'll keep my 2 stroke!

I love GasGas bikes, and if I was in the market for a new bike it would be another EC200..hands down! I really hate to see GasGas go down this small bore 4 stroke highway. I know that 4 strokes are the wave of the future, and for GG to be truely well rounded in the WEC they need a small bore 250 thumper, but if it turns out like the early 400FSE....then we'd all better be ready to go down with the ship!

I am not a fan of the 4 strokes, never have been, and as long as I can still by premix oil I'll have a 2 stroke.

I wish them the BEST OF LUCK!
 
I have said it many times - but I wish they would go where no one is versus trying to crowd into an already busy market. A 325cc long stroke reliable motor for racing - not a 450 sleeved down to a 350 - a 250 sized bike with greater reliability and torque.

Husky is selling a TE310 this year - my guess is they will sell very, very well...

As far as the reliability of gasgas' new efforts - the new head of GasGas R & D seems to be guiding the ship pretty well - the new motor might be pretty good out of the box. How did the new side valve 4t trials motor introduction go? I haven't been following it.

jeff
 
when I asked the husky east coast sales rep about riding one of those new 310s,he told me they wouldnt have a problem selling every one of them,he wanted to promote the WR125 and the TXC lineup instead
 
I'm not against GasGas making a 4stroke racer but keep in mind that GG has been loosing ground to KTM every year even though GG puts out better 2strokes. I believe with the new 4stroke trials engine GG could make a play bike that is substantially better and has more mass appeal than anything from Japan or Austria.
Why better? It's better because the engine is more compact, it's cheaper to produce, and it's a lot easier to work on. The compactness allows for lower seat height/ greater ground clearance. That along with better suspension and an overall weight savings of 20-30 pounds over the jap bikes would make the bike an instant success. A bike of this type could give GG what it needs most: a cash cow and name recognition.
 
Like the Pampera, only use better componentry that holds up to hard use.

For a technical woods bike a variation of that side valve motor would be fine. A beefed up version in say 350cc in an EC frame would be killer where I ride, and other snotty places like New England and the PNW. I'd bet the average rider could go faster on something like that than on a 2-stroke, and as conditions got worse, that would include the faster riders as well. Plus, if it was done right and QC held to the proper standard, it would last forever like an XR, even better due to water cooling. A cheap to own 4-stroke hell ride bike that handles like a 2-stroke. Low CG, no pipe to smash, quiet, long range, easy to start EFI, sign me up. For the sand rides if more power is really needed just ride the 2-stroke.

It just wouldn't be fine as far as marketing against the higher output DOHC motors of the competition. People always want more than they need, even if its to their disadvantage.
 
I was in the GG factory last October. (I am the Irish importer / distributor for GG). I saw the prototype 250 4T in the flesh. The engine is tiny, and being a prototype had beautiful hand-machined cases etc. GG claim that the new engine is lighter and more powerful than the opposition. I believe them 100% as I have met with their 4T design guy and he is a genius who loves his job.

They are not releasing this bike yet because they need to be sure how rugged and robust the engine will be. You must remember that not every customer will adhere to the oil and filter change routines etc so the motor has to have some 'fat' built in to withstand some degree of neglect.

They have said that when they do release a 4T 250, they will neeed to be certain that whatever motor is installed will be 100% reliable. They are not ruling out third party motors either - in fact I participated in a survey and feedback excercise with GG regarding the choice of such motors should the decision be made to go with a third party manufacturer.

I personally would like to see a third party DOHC motor used in the GG chassis with fuel injection. The benefits for all would be cost, reliability and easier availability of motor parts etc. So what if the 4T GG 250 had a Yam or KTM or Honda motor in it ?. I reckon it could be a strong selling point for the factory, and it would inspire confidence in new prospective GG customers who would otherwise shy away from an unknown and unproven 4T design.

Just my 2 cents.


Fergus
 
I really hope GasGas doesn't go the 3rd party route for a 250F motor. GasGas needs to get a competitive 250F with EFI on the market that's their own bike. If they just threw a Honda engine in a GasGas chassis, I doubt it would sell well. I'm a die hard GasGas guy, but I'd never buy a GasGas with a Honda/Yamaha/KTM engine in it.
 
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