Is there a 220 kit for a 200 ?

[Dirt Dud]

I am getting my 2010 200 six days ready to sell and am going to put a piston and rings in it . So since I plan on doing that I am thinking about bumping it up to see how it runs ? I have had a bunch of KDX 200 and a worked KDX220 and that engine was sweet . So if it is possible I would like to experiment on my old 200 and see what it is like . If I like it my 2014 would get it done to it also .

 

[Dirt Dud]

I have a 2005 200 good engine to play around with so I plan to try something , any help is really appreciated

 

[cbutler]

From Zman

http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21016&highlight=200+big+bore+kit

 

[Dirt Dud]

Thanks cbutler I am shipping out the engine next week so I guess I will be keeping this bike after all .

 

[Zman]

More power increases your SPG! (Smiles Per Gallon)

 

[hadfield4wd]

Thanks cbutler I am shipping out the engine next week so I guess I will be keeping this bike after all .

Hard to part with them huh? I get it.

My son has been riding my 250. He likes it so I guess thats what we're getting. I do like the 200 thats for sale here though too. I have a KDX I'm going to put him on to see what he thinks about the power, but he seems addicted to the 250.

 

[Dirt Dud]

If i sell a bike it has to be as rite as I can make it when I tore down the engine on the 2010 200 six days.And discovered the piston was shot I thought why not sell my 96 XR280 and keep the 2010 236cc as my spare buddy bike ? I just put the new big bore in my XR and it really is a tractor with some power now . I will post it next week here before putting it on the market . Like all my bikes it has alot of goodies on it .I have had it longer than any other bike I ever had . Hate to see it go but the bike room is full .

 

[Zrt1200]

I just got my 240 big bore back from Eric a few weeks ago. Its cold here now so I probable wont install it till spring.

 

[eff]

I'm pretty sure you can just buy a 250 jug, head and piston and be good to go.

 

[webmaster]

I'm pretty sure you can just buy a 250 jug, head and piston and be good to go.

I don't think that is "a given".. The 200 uses a different crank and has a shorter stroke from the 250/300. The bottom cases are different as well.

These may start out using the same in casting - but, my guess, is that they are machined differently and are not compatible.

jeff

 

[eff]

I don't think that is "a given".. The 200 uses a different crank and has a shorter stroke from the 250/300. The bottom cases are different as well.

These may start out using the same in casting - but, my guess, is that they are machined differently and are not compatible.

jeff

Thanks Jeff. I always thought they were built on the same platform as the 250/300.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

 

[Zman]

I bolted a 250 cylinder on a 200 several years ago and the piston at TDC was pretty deep in the hole, (Aprox 0.125 inches below stock). Eric Gorr's big bore kit uses a piston that is much bigger than the 250 piston to get to 236cc.

 

[frankinberg]

Just got my 2011 sixdays 200 back from my motor guy no big bore on this one just the latest and greatest porting and cleanup set squish and with rb design carb and arrow pipe this thing rips will test in woods soon

 

[gasgasxc]

We have done alot of big bore conversions in the past.
Close to square as you can get bore x stroke is good.
The CR 125 used a square engine for many years and it was a fire breather for its time.
The 66.4 x 72 CR 250-and many manufacturers copied that magic formula-big bored with a 300 kit was a square 72x72 engine and it was good.

The one thing that we did find is smaller bore to stroke ratio will give you a quicker revving higher rpm less torque characteristics.
And as you go over square bore x stroke you rapidly begin to lose rpms and you gain torque.

Summary-in our experience up to square bore x stroke is ok.Over square is too far and you begin to lose any stock engine characteristics exponentially.
As a negative side effect the bigger the bore to stroke ratio the harsher the abuse on the lower end.Although on the GasGas 200 engine the lower end is pretty beefy.
Also there comes a point where jetting becomes an issue and you are limited to how much fuel you can get burned through the engine efficiently.

Stock is 62.5 x 65 on the GasGas 200 I believe.So it is fairly close and just under square
stock.
Also Nikasil bores are faster revving and more rpm efficient then standard non Nikasil bores.

So how much you gain to how much you give up is always the question.
Gorr knows whats up.
But he is also in the business of giving the customer what they want.

Their definately comes a point where bigger isnt better and a point how far you can go on the bore without lengthening the stroke.

Good luck and tell us how it turns out.

 

[pscook]

The one thing that we did find is smaller bore to stroke ratio will give you a quicker revving higher rpm less torque characteristics.
And as you go over square bore x stroke you rapidly begin to lose rpms and you gain torque.

This information is completely contrary to everything I have read and experienced with engine builds. Typically longer rods equals more torque and less rev/over-rev, and shorter stroke is quicker/higher revs with lower torque. Once you get the bore oversquare, you require revs to build RPM to replace the torque lost from the shorter rods.

Edit: I just read up on the square/long rod/short stroke configuration comparison, and it appears that more (way, way more) than rod/bore goes into torque/RPM/HP. Therefore, I stand (sit) corrected. I also have much to learn about engine bore and stroke for power characteristics.

 

[gasgasxc]

People put alot of value on what they have read or what they have heard.
Im basing my opinion-statement on what I have done.
Keep in mind these type of engine mods are time consuming and expensive.
And there is no going back.Once you punch that hole you will be buying a new cylinder if you want to get back square one.

We bored bikes in the older days, because their werent alot of options.
250s-300 kits late 80s-mid 90s
It was that or ride a 500

The IT 200 with a 240 kit.
Another success story.The IT 200 was a unique machine for its day1984-1986.Actually a killer little bike but it needed a bit more bark.

The Honda XR 250 With a 280 kit and the real trick thing to do was Powroll the rod.
This was pre XR 400 and even though the XR 350 was available it wasnt long before the chassis was outdated for its time.
That 280 suited short shifting vets of that era who wanted a quiet bike with some low end bark and good fuel range lighted up and in some cases plated.

The point is in all 3 of these old school big bore kitted bikes you HAD TO build the motor to get the bike you wanted.


In the case of the EC 200 you can step up to the next level in power and performance by simply buying the same year EC 250.They are essentially the same machines in every way besides engine characteristics.
IE Your whatever year EC250 is going to feel very much like your same year EC200 in every way but engine performance.
You can just buy what you want.

In the case of the above machines we had to build what we wanted.
The next size up machines of those earlier examples were completely different animals and shared few similarities overall.

You like to spend money and tinker with interesting projects.You want something that is unique to the uneducated or inexperienced. or unaware or looky what I got rider.You have a special love for your old bike.Then a Bigbore 200 may be the way to go.
Or hey, it just sounds cool.And I can dig that too.

To a realist.
Buy the 250

 

[Zman]

You make some good points, but not everyone wants to replace the bike they already have especially if they have set it up for their weight and riding style. This big bore kit offers a reasonable cost option to people who like their existing bike but want or need some more power. Or for people like my friend who needed to refresh their tired engine, the cost for this big bore kit was only $200 more than a stock bore replate and piston kit. My friend's son decided to swap his 200 for his fathers 300. My friend kind of missed the extra 100cc but did not want to buy an new bike or shell out $800 to $1200 for a 250 engine (that might also need a rebuild). The big bore is not for everyone but it works well for certain people and applications.

 

[gasgasxc]

Thats true.


1. Send cylinder out for boring and preferably plating
If not then it is boring and sleeve?
2.Gaskets and misc. B.S.
3.Oversize piston-rings-pin-clip.
4.in many cases if the Kitter isnt supplying base and head gaskets that can be a hassle depending on how extreme the BB mod is.

Above is the minimuns.
$650-$800 when the last bolt gets tightened.

That is assuming this is a do it yourself deal.
If the shop does it and many will have to go that route.
Add $80-$110 an hour shop rate.

In some cases you will have to change pipes, usually carb mods anywhere from simple jetting and clip postioning to boring the carb.
You may need to change CDI.
None-some or all of the above to maximize your big bore swap.
It isnt punch a big hole and ride off in the sunset kind of deal.
Trust me.

Also people wont always be happy with the mod.Although in most cases they will. Or after spending that much money and time they will have to be.

The BB parts wont always be serviceable.The BB mod will have a shelf life depending on the popularity of the kit.EC 200? Goodluck in the future.

The bike can and will be tempermental at times. Variances in elevation-temperature and humidity will feel like race day in the pits and some pre ride bullshit and a trail bag full of jets and needles.

In no way am I wanting to sound negative or discouraging.We have had some great success with BB swaps.
But its not an out of the box have a nice day kind of deal.


You made a good point early Z.
I get that

 

[Zman]

I too have heard of people having challenges with some big bore kits, but my 300/327 big bore and the 200/236 have reliable and have had no odd issues.

I think the last Cometic topend gasket kit I bought was $50 but you need to replace that with a stock rebuild too. The jetting changes were minor. The pistons are the same as some Honda ATV pistons, but the skirts need to be shortened a bit so yes it is not an "off the shelf" drop in.

Most GasGas bikes come with 38mm carbs. I thought about getting my 327 carb bored to 39mm but I'm not sure it is worth the money because there is no big need to rev the snot out of the bike. The stock 38mm carb seems fine for the 236 cc.

We have only had the 236 together for a year and it has been great so far... time will tell. My 327 has been together for more than 10 years with no issues. I have replaced the piston three times and the bore plating is still in good shape. Some people prefer stock configurations, I like something different. Based upon my experience I would not hesitate to do it again.

 

[gasgasxc]

It comes down to each their own or whatever knocks you out really.

From a purely pro/con view.
What does the 236 give you that the 250 doesnt.
In unique power characteristics.

Also in most case BB mods one of the specific goals is to build more horsepower in a lighter better handling chassis.
The 200 in historical terms is the top of the small bores.
Specifically the GasGas 200 is not.
It shares the same chassis as the 250-300 and has a massive engine with a small bore as opposed to a smaller engine with a large bore.
From that stand point you gain nothing.

Im sure a properly tuned and well sorted BB 200 is awesome.And if its dependable and serviceable all the better.

The BB 300 makes more sense to me.
That falls into more traditional BB paramaters.
GasGas isnt making a bigger 2 stroke then the 300.
So you did.