Jetting problem - JD / spooge / spluttering

[jocser]

Hello everyone,

I am Jochen from Belgium and I have a jetting problem that drives me crazy.
I have a 2012 EC300 which I bought last year from an international enduro pilot. They bike was in a nice condition,and hadnt run too much. He had the S3head with black insert, so massive power which was too much for me. I replaced the original compression insert.

My previous bike was a '99 EC300 with a massive torque and mega power but unfortunately everything but the engine was really worn. With this 2012 I always felt a lack of torque and "aliveness" of the engine. He also always has spooge at the muffler, checked packing and that's OK.
So 2 weeks ago I decided to rejet it, did some research and bought a JD Jetting kit, so placed the red needle in 4th clip, 180main and 40pj. He definitely has more torque but when going from low revs constantly to more throttle he really splutters for 2-3 secs and then he pulls and rev's.

He also had this problem with my previous setting in the last 2 months so I really don't know what it is.. Replaced the plug, cleaned the carb, and I use a clean filter every ride...

Any tips?: )

Thanks!

pick of my bike attached.

 

[barossi73]

Drop the needle to clip3,splutter is rich
As for spooge,an oil with a high flashpoint wont burn as well unless you are wide open throttle a lot.(had this with belray h1r,great protection/more spooge) also if youre rich,wont help as engine runs cooler.also qstealth endcan is worse for spooge
What needle/jets were in it before?
Sputter could be needle rich at that point,or a rich pilot that chokes you up when puttering,then when you crack throttle it blubs as it clears all the excess mix. (Drop pilot 1 size)
That said im not familiar with jd needle,so my advice is general not specific to that needle

 

[jocser]

Thanks, I ll drop the needle this evening and see if it works.
I have An fmf muffler fitted, and I use motul 800 ester offroad.

The pilot Jet was the same and the main was a little smaller. For what I am Reading Here, I d maybe better bought a Suzuki needle?

I also have a flywheel weight added so that might influence thing also?

Grts

 

[(F5)]

I have a flywheel weight and run 800, stays pretty clean, but just saying that to stop you running after red herrings. You will always get some, chase the smooth power.

 

[Dirt Dud]

I solved my jetting issues with a Smart Carb . I really like this modification on my bikes , in fact it is on my 200, 300, and my 250 trials bike .

 

[jocser]

Hello,

Because Barossi told me sputter is rich, I opted to replace the red needle with the blue on clip #2, because the JD Jetting guide says thats the following step from richer to leaner. Dropping the clip on the red needle to #3 is another step leaner.
Bike feels much better, more power and no more sputtering. Not as smooth as my good old 99, but feels really a lot better.

I rode around for a bit, not wide open throttle and in attachment you can find a pic of the spark plug. It's a little more grey/White than the pic looks like. Isn't that a sign of too lean?

PS: my previous needle was N1EF of N7EF can't read it too well, and jets pj40 and mj180.

grtz!

 

[stabak]

what type of carb Jochen? screw cap or bolt on top

 

[jocser]

Hello, enclosed a picture of my carb!

 

[Jakobi]

Hello, enclosed a picture of my carb!

Your carb boot looks like it's hardly on the carb.. both sides.

Assume the pic was taken while you were making adjustments.

 

[barossi73]

How old is the plug?if its had less than a couple hrs on it and theres no other signs/sounds of lean running,id ride a bit more before assuming its lean.plugs take a while to colour true from new.avoid sustained full throttle and watch for-
Running on before settling to idle when throttle is closed
Bwooar sound when throttle is snapped open
Power flattens off noticeably when bike is hot
Clean,but thin/tinny power
On long deceleration a regular ding ding ding exhaust sound (the odd ding is acceptable)

 

[Neil E.]

Your carb boot looks like it's hardly on the carb.. both sides.

This is very important! If your carb boots are not lined up properly, they don't clamp well and grit can be getting into your engine. If your compression is down, the bike will seem rich and have reduced power. Take a compression test and lets us know what reading you get. There is some variation between testers but this will give us an idea of your engine's mechanical condition.

You can have a perfectly clean air filter but it does no good if dirt gets in somewhere else.

 

[jocser]

Hi all,

thanks for you massive replies! My carb was disconnected when I took the pic, so normally the boot is connected as it should be.
For what I can read here, there might be a problem of a worn piston, which reduces compression and gives the impression of my bike being rich?

I'll ask some of my friends if any of them has got a compression tester! Or maybe I'll just change my piston to be sure.

When I first bought the bike, the black S3 insert was in it, giving it a massive power that reminds me to a CR500, in my opinion, and for my riding skills, not the power you need for enduro. Now I replaced it with the "normal" grey insert, but I could change it to the middle one, the red, which gives more compression and that also might be better?


grtz!

 

[barossi73]

Perhaps someone familiar with the s3 inserts can confirm,but id imagine the base gaskets would need to be adjusted in conjunction with an insert change...to keep compression in an acceptable range?
Im thinking if it was optimised for black,that you may have dropped compression far enough to necessitate a thinner base to correct compression again?

 

[barossi73]

Perhaps its worth considering putting the insert back the way it came,assuming it was setup ok,and try smoothing the power out with a different needle style.
Changing more than 1 thing at a time can be confusing
You say with black insert it was storming.which needle was in it then?and what fuel was the previous owner running?and what fuel are you running now?
Establish a baseline and change 1 thing at a time.you have changed several at once.compression,needle,maybe jets,and fuel grade also
The suzuki needles spread the hit into a smoother progression which gives better control at wrist.consequently they feel a little flat,as the revs build more steadily and the hit is smoothed out.
they take part throttle better than n1e?/noz?

 

[jocser]

Hi,

I've always had the idea that the low down torque wasn't as good as my '99, not even with the black insert. I didn't change all these things at once, it's a summary. I bought the bike in oktober last year and I swapped the inserts after 1 ride. The bike has always been very good, except for spooge coming out of the muffler and a lack of torque.

So 2 weeks ago I started to rejet, and fitted the JD Jetting kit, which came indeed with jets and a needle. So I swapped that at once.

The needle that was in it was the N1EF, for what I've read the stock one. I have got several needles from a friend, N8.. (husaberg 250) and 1 standard kawasaki KX250 needle (with a long pin at the end). I haven't tested them yet.

I've contacted a friend who has a compression tester, will do that this evening!
the piston wasn't change long ago before I have bought it so I assume it will be OK, but you never know.

 

[barossi73]

Ok,makes more sense now.
From what others have mentioned the older bikes had a different ignition and possibly?flywheel weight

 

[Jakobi]

Hello,

Because Barossi told me sputter is rich, I opted to replace the red needle with the blue on clip #2, because the JD Jetting guide says thats the following step from richer to leaner. Dropping the clip on the red needle to #3 is another step leaner.
Bike feels much better, more power and no more sputtering. Not as smooth as my good old 99, but feels really a lot better.

I rode around for a bit, not wide open throttle and in attachment you can find a pic of the spark plug. It's a little more grey/White than the pic looks like. Isn't that a sign of too lean?

PS: my previous needle was N1EF of N7EF can't read it too well, and jets pj40 and mj180.

grtz!

Try JD Red #3.

It was my understanding that blue and red were the same taper profile, clip for clip, but the blue was a diameter closer to an F, where the red was around a H or W.

With the AS2 carb you may find better results with the leaner diameter in a richer position. That's where I would start.

 

[jocser]

I've sent an email to JD, and they also advised me to try JD red #3, just like Barossi did.
Their manual says jetting goes from rich to lean red #4 - Blue #2 - Red #3 - Red #2.
So that's why I started with Blue #2, but that gives me the white/grey looking spark plug at low revs, making my think the Red #3 would be even worse, but maybe I am wrong and is the mixture leaner, but not in low revs.

I'll test my compression this evening and also try the #3 Red. I've cleaned my plug yesterday, so ready for a fresh test.

I have got a flywheel weight installed as well on this 2012. I've read the 99's had a balance countershaft, what improved torque as well.

 

[Terrence R]

I've sent an email to JD, and they also advised me to try JD red #3, just like Barossi did.
Their manual says jetting goes from rich to lean red #4 - Blue #2 - Red #3 - Red #2.
So that's why I started with Blue #2, but that gives me the white/grey looking spark plug at low revs, making my think the Red #3 would be even worse, but maybe I am wrong and is the mixture leaner, but not in low revs.

I'll test my compression this evening and also try the #3 Red. I've cleaned my plug yesterday, so ready for a fresh test.

I have got a flywheel weight installed as well on this 2012. I've read the 99's had a balance countershaft, what improved torque as well.

Maybe your current main jet and pilot jet is what's causing a bit of a white plug color. They all play their role with the needle minorly

 

[jocser]

my compression tester says 125psi when cold and 110 when engine warm. Seems really low to me? Is this possible or have a borrowed an el cheapo tester?

The other option may be that they've mounted a thicker foot gasket and recompensated that with the high compression S3 insert? Just thinking out loud, whereas I am not a real good mechanic.
But it has been a race bike, so maybe the have prepared it that way...

Did another test with the needle in clip 4 and I can live with it for now, I have a 160km ride on the program for sunday, but after that I'm going to re-insert a higher compression insert and see what effect that gives