Jetting Verdict

[Buysomerice]

Jetted the bike today. Stock setup was rich with a NE1F in middle position, main at 175, and pilot at 42. Temps are 80-90?F, humid at 800ft. Bike is a ec300r, air screw 3.5 out.

I moved the clip up one, so 2 from the top. Left main at 175. Changed the pilot to 38. Power is greatly improved and smoother. Some spooge still but also much better. Air screw is 1.5 out. Here is a video of what the new settings sound like.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-t_yjNEYVs

So if anyone can hear it good enough to gauge whether or not the bike is in the ballpark. I know I'll have to watch the plug and spooge to know for sure. The only other jets I have are a CHN needle. Mains in 115, 172, 175, 178. Pilots in 35, 38, 42. I am good with things that have set measurements and methods, but not things that are subjective to interpretation. Thanks for your time and any input.

 

[Jakobi]

Sounds good on the pipe, but still fat off the bottom. Others have said it before though, its all in that needle (its no good!).

The CHN is way too lean and meant to be used with a restricted airbox and other bits and pieces to pass regulations. No good either!

At small throttle you want the bike to just pull nice and clean with a load on it, and blubber slightly if coasting along.

 

[liv2day]

Time to hit rockymountainatv.com (or your favorite supplier) and order some needles amigo; I just ordered 3 to try and get the 200 sorted. After reading several pages on KTMtalk, I learned the NOZx needle isn't that great to go with, so I'm trying a couple of Suzuki needles - want the power to be nice and linear since this is my wife's 200.

If she's fat off the bottom, go down one on the pilot and try a different needle?

 

[Jakobi]

NOZx is the same taper profile as the stock N1Ex (half clip variant). They both have a really short straight section (small scope to actually set the idle), and then come into a super rich taper. The only way to lean this lower throttle area is by lifting the clip, but that then results in a lean mid range. You either live with the richness off idle (which grunts down well but uses a lot of fuel and spooges), or change to a different taper profile.

 

[Buysomerice]

Thanks a lot guys. I rode it hard sunday and am really happy with the top end, it screams. The low end is way better but comparing to the top I think i can read it better now that I know how smooth the power should feel. The spooge is way better, must of been a ton in there to blow out because after 2 hours it was almost stopped.

So to clean up the bottom I was reading that NEDJ and NEDW are smooth delivering power, which I think I want. If I want a hit of power I'll just ring it, it's a 300 lol.

So which of those or any others would you recomend? How will those needles change the rest of the jetting? Should I pick up any other jets with those? Sorry I know there are charts, I just can't wrap my head around it all just yet and I value your guy's opinion. Forgot to mention the airbox is all sealed so she is choked a little but still seems fine enough.

 

[liv2day]

So to clean up the bottom I was reading that NEDJ and NEDW are smooth delivering power, which I think I want. If I want a hit of power I'll just ring it, it's a 300 lol.

I'm not sure what the cross-over is, but when I had my orange 300 I went through several iterations on needles and ended up settling on a N3CH. Combined with a 38 pilot in that bike, it was spot on all the way up to 6k feet with tweaks to the a/s.

I don't know anything about the NEDJ and NEDW needles - hoping Jake chimes in.

 

[lgr]

jakobi had recommended a NEDJ to me a while back when i enquired about similar bike. I picked one up and Love it. usually in second clip with 42 pilot and 175 main. chugga chug like a tractor and still rips nice when you wish. its a bit rich maybe but i enjoy some safety. plan to try 40p and clip 3 when my wrist is healed

 

[Jakobi]

Yep! Good choice it is. I'm running 40 NEDW#2 172 in my 2013 250R

Usually I'd recommend a W for a 250 and J for 300, but every bike, fuel, rider, location is a bit different.

 

[Buysomerice]

Alright sounds good. I just didnt know if changing to the NEDJ would affect the pilot and main, I know they can to an extent but I should still be in the ballpark. I will pick up a 40p since I have a gap from 38-42, leave me some richining room for next winter if anything. Thanks all!

 

[Jakobi]

It will need a different pilot to the F in theory, but in practice your bike probably isn't set to be on the short straight section of the stock needle, and is also clearly rich off the bottom. J/42 combo is going to be close.

 

[Buysomerice]

Awesome thanks again. I'll update this after the change.

 

[Buysomerice]

Just got my NEDJ needle in! So for starters I left the jets as they were with the NE1F (recap of NE1F- sounded good on pipe but still fat on bottom). Even with that the very small throttle opening feels much better on this needle.

First off the air screw is very sensitive, to my ear its proper idle is at 1/2 turn out. She'll rev very high the further I go out. Buuuuut it started first kick cold, its 77F 46%humidity. So whats your guys opinion on this?

Second, there is a rythmic surge on decel after pinning it (chopping throttle closed)? Thoughts? This is just curiosity for the moment because I couldnt test well, just running up and down the street. Will do this properly tommorrow.

 

[Buysomerice]

Just read in another thread something that helped. Seems like my needle might be lean? It's clip is set 2 from the the top same as where the NE1F was.

 

[Jakobi]

OKAY! What size pilot was in it? I'll assume the stock 42, which means you were rich before, so you would have wound the idle screw in (raised the slide - more air) to get it to idle.

Before you play too much try and bring the idle down nice and low with the idle screw, and then adjust the air screw. I'd suggest 1.5 turns from fully seated, but you may come out further. If it idles up when you open the air screw you can bring the idle back down again with the idle screw. When its on the money it'll tick over like a sewing machine, and the air screw will be quite effective where opening it up causes a lean condition and going rich makes it want to flame out a bit.

Pilot test, with bike up to temp quickly open the throttle. It should take revs and not cough at you, sounding like it wants to snuff out.

I've found with the idle set too high it will surge on decel, but not your typical racing idle surging (like when you're running out of fuel).. more of a pipebang

 

[Buysomerice]

Sorry I didnt re cover the jets from earier. 175 main and 38 pilot(42 for basically the hole time I've been riding it) and that is what I ran with the NE1F. Idle screw is fully compressing the spring, like you figured.

That's awesome about the idle screw I totally did that. I would lower the idle with the idle screw then raise it back up with the air screw. Did that for 1.5 turns of the idle screw, but I wasnt sure at the time if that was good for it so I put it back to stock before my "test ride". How far out is to much on the idle screw (lowering the slide)? Or do I play with that combination to get to the 1.5 air screw mark as a benchmark?

Your spot on with the surge definatly wasnt a typical solid surge more whaawhaawhaa lol. Over reving probably is the case, fully closed it still idle'd well.Your insight on this process is inspiring, I'll check back on the idle screw info and hopefully get her on par tomorrow night.

One last thing, my fear of jetting stems from going to lean and burning something up. I can just keep an eye on the plug for proper color without doing actual plug chops right?

 

[Jakobi]

wha wha wha could be a lean surge. I'd recommend a 42 pilot with the J needle. Then AS 1.5-2 turns. The bike shouldn't idle with the air screw closed. If it does its too lean.

 

[Buysomerice]

Ok will do.

 

[liv2day]

Before you play too much try and bring the idle down nice and low with the idle screw, and then adjust the air screw. I'd suggest 1.5 turns from fully seated, but you may come out further. If it idles up when you open the air screw you can bring the idle back down again with the idle screw. When its on the money it'll tick over like a sewing machine, and the air screw will be quite effective where opening it up causes a lean condition and going rich makes it want to flame out a bit.

Not to thread jack, but this is excellent information Jake! I've been screwing around with the idle screw and a/s on my wife's 200 and couldn't get it dialed in correctly. Now that I've read this, I'm going back at it today and will report my findings in the 200 thread

Can you please add this information to that Jetting 101 thread?

Buy - good look getting the bottom end sorted, I have on my list this weekend to get my wife's 200 dialed in as well as my brother-in-laws...at least it won't be a dull weekend...lol.

 

[Jakobi]

I'll paste it in there.

The other things you can do to 'experience' different conditions is use the choke/fuel tap. While idling around the yard turn the fuel off and continue just putting around in 1st or 2nd at low loads. It'll take a few minutes to run out, but as the fuel level drops you should be able to notice how the engine response changes. If you were a bit rich it will seem to improve to a point, and then start getting leaner. As its almost run out it will start to surge a bit, and finally it will no longer run. Alternatively, if you think you are lean somewhere you can try and hold the choke open a bit and see how that changes things too. If its right, the addition of the choke circuit should give you a 100% rich condition, burbling and not wanting to take revs, with almost immediate loading up of the engine.

 

[Buysomerice]

Ok, got to tinker today. No real progress but learning. I'm still confused about this pilot, all I read is be around 1.5 turns out on the air mix screw. Well I could hit that mark with basically 3 pilots today if I fiddled with the idle slide screw enough. Anyway I settled on a 42 because its the richest(safest) that I tried and it putted around well.

With the needle I chased bog/low power up and down the needle and settled on the top clip. Not so much of a bog, but she just doesn't feel like it's putting me back in the seat strong enough.

The main I didn't have time to get to real well, but it felt pretty good all day. If I pushed through any bogs through the day the power always felt better at the top.

My main hurtle is not properly reading the lean bogs, from rich coughing.

This is what I settled on, she is brappppy but the power just doesn't feel like it's there. Would appreciate a listen and input. They are all under a minute.

Some warmed up garage blips:

http://youtu.be/hhM0AGUGUdY

3 gear 1/2 throttle:

http://youtu.be/nrClbdv-F6E

Quick run through the gears:

http://youtu.be/dowrsBSZ0Dw