Kick starter seized help?

[ramcclure200]

Nambo, what is the full story when this happened? were you riding then bike suddenly stalled then wouldn't kick?

Were you stopped then tried to kick?

 

[nambo-trev]

After about 3 hours riding climbed a few hills then waited at the bottom with the bike off till my buddy came down, about 2 minutes later I tried to kick it and it would not budge or push start, the wheel wouldn't roll.

 

[ramcclure200]

I see you have the head off, have you pulled the jug off? if so check the sides of the rod for rub marks or unusual polishing.
If it is the stuffer screw it could be resting in crank case just right so motor will crank but could easily get wedged again.

I was riding mine and went to seat bounce over mud crossing and motor just stalled suddenly.

 

[eff]

My clutch basket broke and everything locked up. The piece of the bascket lodged between the clutch and the case. Pull the clutch cover if you haven't and in spect the basket fingers.

 

[kendunn]

ok so i drained oil and no chunks or anything out of the ordinary, i checked the piston and there isnt a mark on it and the cylinder has no scoring or gouging of any kind it looks perfect. im going to consult my dealer to have a look behind the primary as i dont think this should be happening with only 25 hours on the bike. ill post a pick of the cylinder shortly. oh and there was no coolant in there either.

There was no coolant in the radiator or in the motor? If there wasn't any coolant in the radiator then you seized your motor and when it cooled you managed to free it back up. Maybe you got lucky and didn't damage anything, really lucky.... I would at least do rings if that's the case.

Like others have said anything in the tranny could have come loose and caused it to lock up. Bad thing is you may have to take a lot apart to find the missing piece. Start at the easy stuff like the flywheel, then go to the clutch, and then maybe start looking down in the crank. Maybe there could have been a nut or something fallen down in there from the factory, stranger things have happened.

I wouldn't ride the bike until I found the problem even if it seems fine. You don't want that piece bouncing around waiting to do serious damage.

Lastly I don't see how your kickstarter could lock up. There is a gear in there that drives the clutch basket, but its pretty simple.

 

[nambo-trev]

the kick starter did lock up! anyway there was exactly the amount of coolant that should be in the rad i meant no evidence of coolant in the cylinder. im not totally in the dark about engines just new to 2-strokes and this far there not very complicated i think it will just be an easter egg hunt to find the problem. im pulling the primary cover off tomorrow to inspect clutch and kick starter. my dealer contacted me today and said he has heard of kick start gear problems on some gassers so im going to start there, as i said the cylinder and piston are fine.

 

[gasgasman]

Part #2 might have got jammed.

 

[nambo-trev]

thanks so much gasgasman i appreciate the schematic! im taking the primary off tomorrow so ill let you know what i find.

 

[aflica]

Ok , this might sound weird , but i had an 06 300 , that about 2 months after i sold it , the new owner had a very very similar thing happen to him. Same thing , Kicker locked up and the rear wheel too. He was climbing up a hill and GENTLY fell over on the kicker side and then everything was locked up solid. The fall hit nothing , and i mean it was a gentle tip over. What it turned out to be , was the bearing on the water pump came loose and jammed the shaft. New bearing and pump , and the bike hasn't missed a beat in a year and a half since. Now i dont know if this is what's going on with yours , but if your going into that side , take a look at the water pump.

 

[nambo-trev]

i appreciate the input aflica, it just so happens that describes the chain of events to a tee for what happened yesterday, climb then a gentle lay down on kick side, rode it down and wouldnt start. ill have a closer look tommorrow thanks

 

[Kurdt]

Hey guys got back from a gnarly one today and outta the blue the kick starter is seized up. I know this is not good at all, can roll it either. My clutch seems to be intact so do you think the crank seized? My nambo has maybe 20 hours on it so I'm very confused any help would be great!

We had a 2010 300EC seize a crank bearing with less than 20 hours. After disassembly I found that the bearing had no grease at all... NONE! Why does GasGas run a sealed bearing on their cranks?

 

[nambo-trev]

you nailed it aflica, i took the cover off today and the water pump had completely exploded sending chards of metal throughout the case as well as plastic from the gear(thats tore in 2). the insert were the shaft goes is severely scored and bearings are everywhere, heres some pics

 

[aflica]

wow , after seeing the pics , i almost wish i was wrong , My old bike was a really simple fix , that cost less than $200 , and the bike had quite a few hours on it.
Im sure it will get all sorted out with the dealer and such , keep us posted

 

[nambo-trev]

ya im just really bumbed because this is the best part of the riding season here and now i have no bike. im not angry just a little disapointed as im sure any one would be.

 

[Neil E.]

I assume your first picture is upside down. It looks as though that shaft broke clean off back inside the boss. Does that shaft only drive the water pump?

 

[gasgasman]

The counterbalancer could be loose and smacked the waterpump drive.

 

[GMP]

The balance weight is keyed to the crank, the pinion nut is intact, so I think it would be hard for it to hit the pump shaft.

We have seen this once before here, a few years back. If I remember correctly the conclusion was it was an issue with the press fit of the drive gear pin in the water pump shaft, and the shaft failed, as is obvious here.

Should be an easy fix as long as there is no significant case damage. Are all the bearing balls accounted for?

 

[nambo-trev]

i took what i seen out of the case but did not go through everything as im hoping my dealer is going to help me see this matter through, as for the bearings one is still missing. i also feel that the chunks off the case are quite significant and putting a new bearing in would be a patch to a huge problem down the road. it is heavily sccared and there is a substantial amount of metal in the case.

 

[GMP]

Girard is right in that a lot of tha damage to the case was likely caused by the edge of the weight hitting the broken and unsupported shaft, tearing out the bearing, but the shaft would have to have failed first, and why? Have you looked at the impeller and outboard bearing? Is it jammed/seized?

 

[gasgasman]

Glenn, you can see the counter weight intruding into the water pump case bearing. Looks like the counter weight rubbed into the inner case also.