Lugging the bike and stalling - jetting, technique, wrong bike?

[stay_upright]

Say i'm riding some tight woods trails I'll shift up so the bike is always lugging. I'll pull a high gear (300EC) say maybe 3rd at 15mph (only rough guesses here) but the bike is near the bottom of the rev range. I do this as I love how the bike sounds, it's smoother and finds better grip and maybe a co-incidence but I never need to refuel in 3hr races. I select the gear I need for power and nothing more so don't rev the bike unless I need to or occasionally between corners so i don't have to change up then down.

The problem is I seem to stall quite a bit which costs me time. This happens when i'm using the clutch in that (high) gear to negotiate a short slightly slower section or obsticle.

The jetting seems good to me it's leaner than a few people have got pulls cleanly and linearly from the bottom, doesn't start first kick but I don't think it ever has on any jetting.

To avoid stalling my options seem to be:

Try different jetting (butI really like it as it is)

Ride 1 gear lower and rev more but this affects my riding - harder to find grip, more on/off the throttle not as smooth and more gear changes as I can't just rev it between corners...

Sell it and get a smaller capacity bike which would need revving more at the same speed so less likely to stall.. but I like the 300 and do use all it's power and also this would cost me $$$/£££

Try different clutch oils, maybe the clutch is a bit abrupt and helps stall it when i'm feeding the clutch out?

Get a rekluse $$$/£££ again and I may not like it....

 

[2 strokes 4 life]

Think you should try a 2K3 ignition if you dont have one or a flywheel weight to increase engine inirtia. Or even a Rekluse auto clutch.

 

[joey11]

give that thing some gas or click it down a gear. It takes more energy to stop and kick it than it does to shift down a gear.
A flywheel weight may be the ticket for your type of riding if you don't have one to reduce stalling

 

[stay_upright]

Got the euro ignition and a 14oz flywheel weight, the weight helps smooth things out and enables gear changes on steep hills without loosing traction but I still have this problem..

 

[stay_upright]

I'm wondering if a thicker gearbox oil will make for a smoother clutch - less drag and maybe less chance of stalling whan I'm releasing the clutch?

 

[PEB]

I'm wondering if a thicker gearbox oil will make for a smoother clutch - less drag and maybe less chance of stalling whan I'm releasing the clutch?

Go faster, I find I stall it alot when I am going slower. Also try changing your gearing.

 

[gasser]

My riding style is much like yours and I hardly ever stall my EC250 but I run my idle speed higher than most people. If your bike is a true EC a faster idle may be all you need. If your bike has the lighter XC ignition adding a flywheel weight should help alot.

 

[ramcclure200]

Try one of those G2 Throttle cams, my friend had a 300 with one installed and it allows you to tune the throttle response.
It may allow you to run a gear lower so it will eliminate stalling but feed the power on slower to help prevent wheel spin?
Or experment with gearing and throttle cam you might be able to acheive your goal with out the expense of auto clutch, ignition, etc.

Good Luck
Ron
2004 ECDE200

 

[widebear]

Start by running your idle speed higher.Do you de clutch alot? I have a 20 year old grape sized callous on my second last finger, clutch lever making contact when de clutching to keep from stalling.Gonna post the pic just for laughs.

 

[stay_upright]

Yes I use the clutch a lot, I think it's more stalling when I get back on the power but when you only need a gentle bit of power...

From my experience the 300 is impossible to stall if you keep it in gear with the throttle open. I remember when I first got it and near the top of a hill I was 2 gears too high and couldn't change gear or i'd loose traction and stop I was doing about 5mph in 3rd maybe even 4th I swear the motor must have been doing about 250rpm but pulled me to the top of the hill - very impressive.

 

[iancp5]

The problem is I seem to stall quite a bit which costs me time. This happens when i'm using the clutch in that (high) gear to negotiate a short slightly slower section or obsticle.

That's why I switched to a 200. To tame the 300 in the tight wet stuff I had to be in too high a gear even after all sorts of games with flywheels, G2 throttles, Pipes, jetting, compression and even ignition timing. The 300 is just too torquey off the bottom. The best result was from Pobit's jetting with the CCK needle. Even so was still just too pokey for me. On the 200 I can be in a lower gear, keep the revs way above stall speed and not have it pulling my arms off if I tweak the throttle.

The 300 was great fun at times but only at the beginning of races. At the end I found it the bike from hell. Not too bad in summer especially on fast courses. But combine tight trees, wet roots and wet soil ......

If you want to keep the 300 for the torque then you either need to get very good with the clutch or get a Rekluse.

 

[stay_upright]

Hi Ian - I remember talking to on here you a while ago when you still had the 300..

I think I'm too addicted to the power to get another 200 or 250f I think the power helps my riding style as well - very few gear changes and power to overtake people on the flat.

I'd consider a 250gasser for my next bike but not a 200. It's odd people assume I woudl be faster through the woods on a smaller bike but I feel faster on the 300 than on my KTM 200 in tight woods - just smoother more useable power and of course better brakes, clutch and suspension.. (of course)

My only problem really seems to be this stalling and balance/speed at the exit of turns or entry to hills.

 

[widebear]

What about gearing? Taller gearing is off course going to give you a longer smoother spread of power. I rode with an fresh inch of snow on the ground on my 300 to 250 conversion which still had the 13-47 gearing.My ktm 450 ridding buddy Mark , who usually gives me fits, was left like chained to a tree. Its just laid it down. Mellow ,smooth and long. Sounds like I'm talking about a damm cigar!

 

[nick790]

I had the same problemson my old 300, Here's the list of things I did.

1, 12oz flywheel weight.- made it pull alot easyer off idle, and smothed the power low down.
2, G2 trottle cam - again more control, just made riding it easyer, especially when tired.
3, Idle speed - I turned up the idle by a few hundred rpm, I did this in the middle of an event, salling all the time in the morning, not a problem in the afternoon, it also helped the cluch cotrol. Very simple, big difference.
4, Gear ratio - I went up 2 teeth on the rear sproket, on the stuff we get in england where you almost stop before you turn, this will help. That is untill your confedent to carry more speed in the tight stuff.

Hope this helps. I loved my old 300.

 

[widebear]

I found that sometimes flywheel effect can be more of a liability than an asset. My experiance is that in anything exept super slow, wet, nasty dog paddling survival mode it doesn't do me much good, the bike wants to keep chugging forward at all costs. This in not the most effective way to set up for a quick turn. All that gyro wants to keep the bike going straight like a big old super tanker and if the revs are to low for the gearing , makes for a hacky, choppy onset of power delivary.I found that the top riders that I know rarely or ever add flywheel weight even on full blown mx bikes. You can learn their tecnique of carefull clutch and throttle action. It just takes lots and lots of practice and of course a well sorted out bike.

 

[iancp5]

I think I'm too addicted to the power to get another 200 or 250f I think the power helps my riding style as well - very few gear changes and power to overtake people on the flat.

Well if you're quicker it can't be a big problem can it?

Yeah I miss being able to overtake on braking - struggle to get alongside on the 200. But what I lose early on I gain in enjoyment by not being so cream crackered towards the end. Not sure if my results have improved on the 200, think they have. I am certainly finishing races where many are DNFing due to tough conditions and I suspect I would too on the 300 - there were events I was so tired I just wanted to cry each time I nudged the gas accidentally. I did lose out at Canada Heights because the 200 was slow on the MX bits. Makes you cry to overtake in the woods, pull away and they guy overtakes you on a straight while you have it pinned in every gear! But for the SEEC series most events are very tight woods so the 200 I find better overall.

 

[skid jackson]

All that gyro wants to keep the big going straight like a big old super tanker .

hmmm I have a 10 oz fww on my 06 de 300 ....
The bike kind of feels "big" to me sometimes. That was one of the reasons I picked up my 02 husky 125. I wonder if I pulled off the fww if it might sashay through the woods a little easier. too bad it is winter now ... I'll have to wait april to try it.

 

[Loosenut]

I tuned my '05 300 for more low-end power and tamed it by dropping a tooth on the rear sprocket. Try out a #8 slide if you have the stock EC head. In combination with the LTR needle it was smooth and stalling was not an issue.

 

[JEEPUSAURUS]

If you like to run two gears too high, you should try two teeth more on the rear, this will help it chug out of the really low rev's, and it almost sounds like you may want to try one size bigger pilot (maybe a little too lean down low).
What oil are you currently using in the gear box? i use 5/30 syntec, great clutch feel,not grabby, never fades under severe abuse.

 

[widebear]

Spot on jetting is so critical when it comes to being able to lug the bike.Guys I ride with are dumb struck by my ability to climb ugly rock faces with the revs barely above idle! I dont know of any other competition two stroke that can pull off the same gag. When you look at that small high velocity exhaust port on our bikes you start to understand why you can pull off those type of tricks. If I tried that on my old kx the tire would still be smoking.