My EC250 06 lacks torque.

[ejas]

Hello all,
At the begining of this year I bought a new 06 model EC250. I have been riding trials bikes for quite a few years but fancied a change. I am happy enough with the bike except for the lack of torque and throttle response. Mid range and top end seem fine but in really tight rocky going or on tricky climbs the poor bottom end makes things really difficult. The only way up a steep tricky climb is with lots of revs but it means that changing lines on the way up is very difficult. I recently tried an EC300 which had been previously tuned for Super Motard. It had a very stong top end as expected but also much more at the bottom end than mine. I am considering fitting an FMF Gnarly pipe. Does anybody know how these perform? Another possibility is to change to a 300 barrel and piston although I don't knoow the costs involved with this. Has anybody got any suggestions?
I have to change the front disc as I seem to have managed to crack it. Up to now (touch wood) I haven't had any big off's but it must have caught a rock in one of my stumbles. I plan to fit a Goldfren wavey disc. Any good?
I fitted a CRD bash plate from new but this has split at the back. I am a bit disappointed that it is made from aluminium and not duralumin as on the trials bikes which take years of serious abuse with no ill effects.
So far so good with the CRD rad. guards but they haven't been realy tested yet.
I also fitted neoprene fork gaiters which are supposed to lengthen the life of the seals but the left hand one has been cut by the disc when the forks compress fully.
Any top tips for this bike greatly appreciated.

John.
I

 

[GMP]

The first thing that came to mind was that perhaps your comparing it to your trials bike. My wife has a 250 Pampera so I know what trials motor torque is like. The EC is a race bike, different animal. That said, it should still pull well enough off the very bottom to keep you going when momentum runs out. Not a lot of thrust that low, but it shouldn't stall either. I do a lot of technical rocky climbs as well, and have had no problems on the three 250s I've owned. 300s do have more bottom end. Many things can be done for gains if needed, but first:

Whats your gearing? Jetting? Large or small flywheel ignition?

The Gnarly pipes give good bottom but if you have the stock GG pipe its close, plus it seems to rev out better. If you have an FMF Fatty, its the same as a Gnarly on the '03+ bikes just made from thinner guage steel, I have one hanging up in the garage.

The CRD skid plate is weak. I'm very happy with the Hyde combo on my '07. Its taken a few good hits with just some scratches, and the pipe and frame are unharmed.

Also consider that rock riding is very demanding on suspension, usually requiring a specialized setup if your serious. The stock valving is decent but not perfect especially if your out of the average weight range.

 

[lukachuki]

I have the same issue and have decided to go for a 300 as I'm not sure I can make the 250 into a technical bike as it just wants to stretch it's legs and run.

Tim

 

[GMP]

Don't jump the gun. Yes the 300 has more but the 250 is perfectly adequate, and will make you a better rider. The 300 is not a free lunch, it feels a little heavier, vibrates a little more, and gets you tired faster. Before you blow big $$ on a 300 conversion there are a lot of free and cheap mods that add up. Beleive me I ride very gnarly trails, as do two of my friends that now own my old 250s. In fact, my nephew rides a GG 125 on the same stuff and gives some of the old guys a hard time.

What is your current setup?

 

[Loosenut]

The head mod might be just the ticket.

 

[GMP]

Agreed, but some things are even eaiser/cheaper, thats why he should post his current setup.

 

[eff]

When I put the LTR jetting in my bike this year I noticed a vast improvement in the power delivery.

For starters I can chug it down low much better without stalling.

Another thing you you may want to consider is the G2 thottle.

 

[Eric K]

The Gnarly pipe is a waste of money in my opinion. Compared to a Gnarly, the stock GasGas pipe has about as much on bottom and much more on top. The stock pipe has a more linear, controllable delivery.

You will get a significantly better torque improvement with correct jetting and the RB Designs head mod. Together, they will cost less than a Gnarly.

The LTR jetting works quite well. RB Designs offers a carb mod and jetting package that works very well.

 

[GMP]

OK, assuming its a stock '06 right?

Start with jetting, try the LTR kit.

Gear 13/52 for technical rock riding and climbing

You can advance the ignition timing slightly (free and reversable) for more bottom.

LTR PV cover, works well with the GG pipe. Adds a little bottom with no loss elsewhere.

Base gaskets. Most likely there is a .5mm and .3mm stock. R&R the top end with a single .3mm. Check you squish height and compression(see tech article). Be sure squish is 1mm min.

RBD head mod. Take the base gasket swap one step farther and have the head modified to reduce and even the squish band. You can add a little compression (up to 195 - 200 PSI) and still run pump fuel, good mod.

Reed valve. You will have a VForce III. For still more you can use a VForce II and set the reed tension position to low. This gives very good gains in low end snap, but reeds are only good for a season.

CDI. If this is still not enough, try a CDI from a 200. More low end snap yet but more of a mid-hit as well.

Gnarly may give a little more bottom but trades top and adds hit, keep the GG pipe, works good. Pipe swap is the most $$ and most vulnerable to damage.

Flywheel weight, if you have a DE with light 2K-2 ignition.

G2 throttle. This is great for tech riding, as it allows more control like a trials bike throttle, but only in the first half turn.

If you did all of the above, it will be a monster off the bottom. Start with jetting and go ride.

 

[ejas]

Thanks for all the help so far.
The gearing at the moment is 12/48, I also tried 12/52 which made things easier
by reducing the speed in the really tight sections but it is the off the stop throttle response that I am looking for.
For me a perfect enduro bike would have the bottom end power of a trials bike and the top end of a mx bike. Dream on! The top end on the EC250 is fine but any gains at the bottom end would be very welcome.
Carb setup,
175 main jet
45 pilot jet
N1EG needle with the clip in the 2nd slot from the top
7 slide

The flywheel as with everything else on the bike is standard EC250. It does have some numbers on it FP8009 6A31 if that helps.

I agree that the suspension needs sorting sometime but I'll get back to you on that one once I have more power.

Does the std 300 have the same porting and compression ratio as the 250?

Thanks,
John.

 

[ejas]

One other thing.

My bike has the two ignition maps but I cannot feel the difference between the two. I have tried switching from one to the other on the road but there seems little or no difference.

 

[GMP]

Where are you located? Whats you elevation and temp? The bike will pull better off the bottom with the LTR needle but we can't offer specific advice without data.

Where do your ignition wires exit the case, front or rear? If front, you have the smaller flywheel 2K-2 ignition and will benefit from a weight.

The map switch has a very small effect on the 250, more on the 300. On my bike with the jetting dialed in perfect, it makes the bike come on the pipe just a hair slower, but its a very small difference. You might notice it more if its real slick, never on the road.

12/48 is way low! Also 12t will eat itself and your chain quicker. 12/48 is like 13/51. I like 13/52.

I'd like to help because it seems we ride similar terrain. I was out Sunday and climbed some very technical rock hills, the bike will work awesome when set up correctly. I've had KTM 300s, 400 and 450 4-strokes, and this bike is the best technical terrain bike I've ridden yet. The precision steering and agility outweighs any power advantage of the bigger bikes.