No Spark.. (i think)

Todd5774

Todd5774

Gold Level Site Supporter
Bike was running perfect the last time i had it out which was mid december, went to get it out at the weekend and no joy, couldnt get it running for love nor money! Even threatened to junk her and she still wouldnt play!:eek:

Its an 02 ec 300 (uk bike)

Things i have done so far..

changed plug
changed fuel
unplugged cutout switch and then replugged in, changed to one off another bike which i know is working.
visably checked wiring for any chafes or rubbing
completely disasembled carb, cleaned and rebuilt it
changed plug cap
unscrewd HT lead and then trimmed down both ends and put back together.

How do you visably check i have a spark, is there a way of grounding the plug to the frame and then kicking the bike over?

In the interim of last riding the bike i did change over to the 2010 bodywork so im wondering if i have disturbed something to do with the ecu or something along those lines. could the coil have just packed up?

Could really do with some help from the collective as have no idea where to go from here other than just replacing the electrical compononts one by one.:confused:
 
check the spark by putting a plug in the plug cap and hold it against the engine somewhere.
BE CAREFULL not to touch the plug,try to let it rest on top of the cilinderhead or you'll find yourself in a test where you'll findout how quick your hand/arm is :D
then kick the engine over and look for a spark.
 
hannesd said:
check the spark by putting a plug in the plug cap and hold it against the engine somewhere.
BE CAREFULL not to touch the plug,try to let it rest on top of the cilinderhead or you'll find yourself in a test where you'll findout how quick your hand/arm is :D
then kick the engine over and look for a spark.
Click to expand...

Ok tried that this afternoon but i was only cranking the kicker by hand and wasnt getting a spark, do i need to actually kick the bike like im starting it?
 
Kicking by hand with the plug out is OK.
From my experience, you may have a bad ignition coil.
 
Ugghh. I just saw this.

1. I had a similar problem with my 2002 ec300. Just died coming out of the woods. Bad news. Couldn't debug it on the trail.

2. I hate it when things don't work. So, I am building my own ignition. I took the ignition off of my bike, put it in my lab (aka, basement) on a lathe, and started to study it.

3. The kukosan ignition will deliver a spark at 100 RPM, which is much slower than you see when you kick it.

4. The coil seems to be the weak link. Mine acts flaky on the bench. It works sometimes, and not others.

5. I have tested the stock CDI with an EMGO coil, and it seems to work fine on the bench (spark is just as healthy with this as the stock coil (when mine works)). Emgo coil 2471536 . It's $12. Same coil as was on my XR 250, and it's also found on CR250s (the two-strokes). I bought one just to have a spare. It's a much better deal than the $136 kukosan costs.

6. Did I say that I hate when things don't work? So, i am designing and building my own CDI. I am about 60% done: signal processing, computation & software, and stage 1 of the power supply. I have to do stage 2 of the power supply, then finalize the design, and have some boards built.

(Two power supply stages make it universal.)

It will have some diagnostic LEDs (indicate power in, pulse of the pick up, and spark signal out) so if you're on the trail and you lose spark, you'll be able to tell what is wrong. I hope to have a bike-ready unit for test in the next two months; i am going to make enough for my bike, my kids' bikes, and two or three for GGRiderclub forum members who want to test one.

7. It will be multi-map. I was thinking about a throttle sensor, but a clean way to do it with bark-busters is tough. (Easy Peasy w/o them!). I have three maps going now (soft, medium, and hard).

7. Of course, i thought this would take a month, but I am into month three. If i only didn't have a day job....


Good luck.
 
Last edited:
gasgasman said:
Kicking by hand with the plug out is OK.
From my experience, you may have a bad ignition coil.
Click to expand...

Silver had a similar issue, and after going to the trouble of changing out the coil, and chasing his tail, found out he had a bad CDI module. There may be some cross-overs, or else try to find a buddy with a CDI he's willing to lend you and plug it in and try it.
 
After Silver's episode, he sent me his dead CDI. It was dead, as I tested it on the bench.

I took my mill and "de-potted" it. Didn't learn a thing.

It could be the CDI box. I suggested the $12 coil as a means to eliminate one variable from the equation. ♠

All that the GG manual has on the ignition is this:

Measurement Colour of wires Resistance
Impulse coil Red - Green 100 +/- 20%
Exciter Black/Red - Red/White 12.7 +/- 20%
Charge coil Yellow - Earth 0.67 +/- 20%
White - Yellow 0.16 +/- 20%

It just tells you about the stator, pulsar, and ignition coil.

My kids' KTM manual has more info; i can provide that if you like. They tell you about kicking the bike, looking for output on the AC output (something like 35 volts AC peak as you kick it, if memory serves). This is consistent with 1000 RPM output.

The culprit is either the box or the coil. Coil can be a cheap, easy test ($12, 5 minutes). Black box, not so much.

good luck.

blitz
 
Todd5774 said:
In the interim of last riding the bike i did change over to the 2010 bodywork so im wondering if i have disturbed something to do with the ecu or something along those lines. could the coil have just packed up?
Click to expand...

Have you pulled the plastic and the tank yet to see if you pinched something when you put it back together after working on the bodywork? I wouldn't be giving my money away for parts until I was sure I hadn't pinch-grounded any wires. Depending on the wire it would be the same as pushing the kill button (No spark).
You also didn't mention the condition of the spark plug. If the carb is flooding and soaking the plug you won't get any spark either. Just thought I would throw that idea out there also just in case.
Good luck either way. We're all waiting to hear what you find.
 
Read my past posts as well. Water intrusion in the HV lead wire as in exits the coil. Before you buy a coil check this.
 
First thing I did was check the plug and carb, then took the tank off too check the wiring.
Unfortunately don't have anyone nr me with a gasgas to check the cdi so will have to eliminate everything else before I go down that route, does anyone know if the cdi from a ec200 same yr as mine would work as there is one going cheap on eBay at the mo..
 
GMP said:
Read my past posts as well. Water intrusion in the HV lead wire as in exits the coil. Before you buy a coil check this.
Click to expand...

Yup looked at that as well!!

Keep the suggestions coming guys! Desperate to ride again!
 
Todd5774 said:
Does anyone know if the cdi from a ec200 same yr as mine would work as there is one going cheap on eBay at the mo..
Click to expand...

Yes it will but depending what CDI you have it may change the ignition curve a bit. I think they used the 200 CDI's on the MC and XC models (250cc) of that era for the more aggressive ignition curve.
 
Ok.......

So now I have a problem, just in passing the bike I decided to give it a kick and it fired straight up.....
So it's fixed itself but now I have no idea what the problem was, so can't trust the bike until I can find the original fault , I guess it's a case of stripping the loom wire by wire to see if there is a break in a wire somewhere as my fiddling with the bike trying to trace faults must have aligned a wire or stopped it from earthing somewhere.

Why is nothing easy?!:rolleyes:
 
Got to love those electrical gremlins, I used to do industrial mechanical/electrical service and some of the stuff was so weird with the wiring, I don't know how dirt bikes even keep an electrical connection. The thought of fuel injection scares me to death on a dirt bike :eek: .

Hey blitz, sounds like an interesting project you are working on, wish you were next door so we could play together :D
 
Todd5774 said:
Ok.......

So now I have a problem, just in passing the bike I decided to give it a kick and it fired straight up.....
So it's fixed itself but now I have no idea what the problem was, so can't trust the bike until I can find the original fault , I guess it's a case of stripping the loom wire by wire to see if there is a break in a wire somewhere as my fiddling with the bike trying to trace faults must have aligned a wire or stopped it from earthing somewhere.

Why is nothing easy?!:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

If it were easy, it wouldn't be fun!

Wiring is easy. If you're methodical, you'll find the problem (if it exists there).

The black box isn't easy. You can't measure anything, you can't see anything, you can't diagnose. All you can do is replace as a last resort.

The intermittent problems are the worst. How do you know that you really have it?

Kendunn, the project is kind really fun. Frustrating, too. It would be nice to find an entire day to wrap up the loose ends, but every time i have an idea, it's a two day wait for parts. Then something else comes up, most notably, my day job.

My plan is to post an article about the theory of operations of these ignitions, and a walk through of the design of what I am designing now, maybe making available my CDI box as an alternative to the Kukosan box. I want something that indicates that the CDI is alive, so if a problem does arise, it will assist diagnosis. Once i have the 2'nd stage of the power supply figured out, i should be pretty close.

blitz
 
Is the stator dry and free of corrosion? As far as wiring check the harness where the subframe can pivot up. This can be stressed if your not carefull, I always cut the ties for more slack.
 
GMP said:
Read my past posts as well. Water intrusion in the HV lead wire as in exits the coil. Before you buy a coil check this.
Click to expand...


Exact same thing happened to mine.
I drove to the trail head in some blinding rain, got there and the bike would not start.
I sealed the coil in a zip lock bag and next day you could see condensation in the bag.
 
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