Part 2: My next bike will be a ...

[MattR]

A while back, I posted a thread about buying a 4T bike for dual-sporting. Well, I have decided that there's no 4T in my future plans. I love the simplicity of 2T bikes with their low cost, ease of maintenance, and being great singletrack bikes.

For dual-sporting/commuting short distances to work, my current 2001 bike will fit the bill perfectly... it's street legal, reliable, and carrying a bit of premix oil in a bottle is no big deal.

So I have a new dilema for my next bike... will it be a 200 or 300?
Here are some of the thoughts running around my brain:

Option 1) A DE or EC200 would be a blast to ride on tight singletrack. Unfortunately, it does not appear that GasGas will not offer a 200 bike in 2007. Is this true? If yes, then I would have to find either a 2006 or older GG model... or switch to the dark side and buy a pumpkin bike.

Option 2) If I buy a 200, I could also convert my 250 into a 300 which improves dual-sporting and gives me the best of both worlds... a big bike and little bike. Since I plan to redo the topend this winter, now may be a great time to convert my bike into a 300.

Option 3) Scrap the 200 idea and just buy a new 300. Keep my 250 "as-is" and enjoy either a 2006 or 2007 300 bike as my primary ride. A 2006 model would allow for more part swapping if needed in emergencies. However, the 2007's does offer some new advantages... stronger subframe, air filter attachment, seat attachment. However, I really dislike the 2007 graphics (a minor thing).

Option 4) With either the 200 or 300, do I buy another DE or try something new like an EC? An EC sounds nice with the heavier flywheel and better power output for lights. Of course, the DE's are nice with their racier feel and ability to tailor the flywheel weight to suit your needs.

Decisions, decisions, decisions...

Anyone want to corrupt my mind and offer any suggestions.

 

[eff]

For dual-sporting/commuting short distances to work, my current 2001 bike will fit the bill perfectly... it's street legal, reliable, and carrying a bit of premix oil in a bottle is no big deal.

Except some people might be wondering what funky cologne you are wearing.

 

[tm_enduro]

If you are considering a 200, you should look at (and preferably test ride) a 125. They are amazing in the woods, and are actually fairly economical to own (they are easy on brakes, tires, chains, etc). GasGas does make a good 125. Regarding EC vs DE, riding in the woods is about smoothness and using momentum, quick revving is of little use.

 

[Nick]

The 200 is still offered.

 

[GMP]

The 250 is hard to beat, you really can't go wrong. Does everything pretty well. Whatever I get I have to keep for a few years, so the 250 is a safe bet. 300s can tire you out faster as they have more instant pull off the bottom, although I havn't tried a new one in the "rain" position. They do vibrate a little more though.

The GG 125 is rare but an excellent 125 when set up right. Very durable. There is a huge difference in weight feel between the 125 and the 200.

 

[MattR]

The GG 125 is rare but an excellent 125 when set up right. Very durable. There is a huge difference in weight feel between the 125 and the 200.

Does the 200 use the same chassis as the 125? I thought it was but maybe I'm mistaken.

Is the weight difference you mention due to the extra engine inertia?

 

[MattR]

The 200 is still offered.

Thanks, that is good to know. At least I can stay with GG's in case I go the 200 route.

 

[tm_enduro]

Does the 200 use the same chassis as the 125? I thought it was but maybe I'm mistaken.

Is the weight difference you mention due to the extra engine inertia?

As far as I know, the 125 has a 125 specific frame and motor. The 125 is quite a bit lighter, and feels even lighter with the reduced spinning crank and gear mass. As a rider that loves everything from a 125 to a big block 4T, I can tell you that the 125's are very underrated.

 

[Hawkeye]

So I got into a huge argument about KTM EXC's vs. the FSE for nothing.

OK, I think you're somewhat crazy, as I am sold on a 4T for Dual Sport use, but you have a plan and want some input. Regarding the big bike little bike theory, my friend has a 200XC and a 300DE. He convinced his wife to let him keep the 200, he was going to ride it in the tight stuff. Now it sits most of the time, he has been corrupted by the 300's nice power. The difference in handling nimbleness in the tight stuff to him is negated by the torque of the 300.

Can you ride other peoples bikes? That is the best way to solidify what you like and don't like.

 

[MattR]

So I got into a huge argument about KTM EXC's vs. the FSE for nothing.

Nope, the KTM 525EXC would make a great dual-sporter. I just took a hard look at my true needs and I would end up dual-sporting much less. I want my next bike to be my primary ride... and I love 2T bikes.

he has been corrupted by the 300's nice power. The difference in handling nimbleness in the tight stuff to him is negated by the torque of the 300.

That is my biggest fear with the 200. I'm afraid the power characteristics will be poor versus any nimbleness that I may get. Most likely, I will go with Option #3 since a 300 has been a dream of mine since I've been on GG's.

Can you ride other peoples bikes? That is the best way to solidify what you like and don't like.

I only know of one person with a KTM 200EXC and he lives about 5 hours north. Perhaps if I do a trail ride up that way, I can beg him to ride it. No one has a 300 around me. So in both cases, I have to mainly rely on other riders feedback. The dealers suck around me so that option is out too. Unless, BMG gets their new, improved dealer network rolled-out in the coming months.

 

[GMP]

The 125 is a completely different bike than the 200, frame and motor are way lighter. It feels like a feather compared to the 250, even though its heavy by current 125 standards. The 200 feels a little lighter although it weighs close to the same, because it has less power. Instant power makes the bike feel heavier in the turns, because it wants to stand up and straighten out. The 250 and 300 are exactly the same and the 300 feels less nimble to me.

I'm getting a new '07 as well. Probably a 250. I also thought of keeping my '03 250 and getting a YZ/WR 250F, but I have no more garage space.

How does the '06 300 with the switch in the "rain" position feel compared to the 250, off the bottom and into the mid?

My stock '03 was a dud off the bottom, my '00 XC was much stronger. Thats all changed now and the '03 runs very strong. How do the '06 250s run in comparison?

 

[eff]

GG 125 for sale here:

http://www.nedirtbikes.com/content/2002_Gas_Gas_125xc/m_60639/tm.htm

 

[tm_enduro]

If at all possible, go to your local riding area and talk to others about the bikes that they ride, ride with them, and beg rides. For me, riding cool bikes has it's perks, I can always offer someone a ride on my bike in exchange for trying theirs. Most guys come back from riding my bikes babbling about handling, jetting, etc being incredible (I am a tinkerer and perfectionist), but I also come back with more knowledge about performance characteristics of other bikes. FWIW, I would say that I was directly or indirectly responsible for the sales of at least 5 Husky 125's over the last couple of years after folks rode mine. No matter what bike you buy, it is a compromise somewhere, no bike excels at everything, but some are good at most everything.

 

[MattR]

I really can't see myself with a GG 125. I think that I would be screaming the engine everywhere. Images of Fred Hoess on the Husky 125 come to my mind. I guess my thoughts were wrong on the GG 200. I was hoping for a lighter package and only give up some power to the 250. True, I would be reving the 200 more than the 250, but not screaming it like a 125. I currently don't use up the full potential of the 250 motor which made me think that with a 200 I could use the full powerband.

From the posts here, it sounds like the GG 200 uses the same chassis as the 250/300. Is this correct?

 

[GMP]

Same chassis, and same cases, different crank, cylinder, and a few other parts. Thats why its heavy for a 200, its based on the 250.

 

[flybars]

Matt, the last guy to tune my suspension on my xr rides all kinds of bikes to get to know each suspension characteristics, but loves his yz125. He's probly in his mid forties and old school about rekluses etc. He rides it everywhere including very technical steep, stuff in the Cascades. He cuts his bars way down for woods etc. He say's riders are always amazed how he can make to the top of some of these trails, and usually the first one.
But this guy is just about the opposite body type and energy level than I. He's tall and wirey with an over abundance of energy and enthusiasm, and probly only needs 4 or 5 hours of sleep a night. He tried to convince me not to buy another 4t and get a 125 2t. But I'm pushin 57 with carpal tunnel and lots of other old injuries coming back to haunt me. I think a 125 would be too much work in the stuff we ride over here for me. Lot's of clutch work.
The 200 gg would have really interested me if weight was the same as the 125. But since the frame is the same as the 300, it's a no brainer for me. The 300 with a rekluse and the EC with rainy and sunny settings would be for me. It weighs 30lbs. lighter than my bike and yet is nicknamed the 3 stroke for a good reason. And when I want to open it up she would be there for me as well. But unfortunately I cannot prove this theory of mine yet, due to zip, nada, zilch in the excess fund department.

 

[MattR]

Same chassis, and same cases, different crank, cylinder, and a few other parts. Thats why its heavy for a 200, its based on the 250.

That's a shame. The 200 could have been a big bore version of the 125 bike... like the 300 being a big bore version of the 250 bike. Really doesn't make sense to make the 200 a low-powered 250 bike.

If seen the KTM 200XC and it is definitely smaller than 250XC. The KTM 200XC must be built from the 125SX bike.

Kind of interesting that KTM doesn't make a 125XC or 125XC-W in their line of 1000 model variations. Not that I really want one, but just an interesting point.

 

[tm_enduro]

KTM does make an exc125 for europe, but even then it is a limited run size. Sales were too low in the USA to import any longer. The KTM 125/200 (and now 144) was built as a 125/200 from inception.

 

[tm_enduro]

But I'm pushin 57 with carpal tunnel and lots of other old injuries coming back to haunt me. I think a 125 would be too much work in the stuff we ride over here for me. Lot's of clutch work.

Not to kick this dead dog anymore, but this is a common misconception. For a rider with the basic knowledge of clearing obstacles in using momentum, a 125 is very easy to ride. The 250 4T's are popular for the same reason, yo uhave to ride them harder sometimes to maintain speed, but the upside is that you go very fast w/o a lot of effort. I rarely come back from a ride on a 125 whooped, but I do get thrashed on a bigger bike.
That being said, I really like the 250/300 Gassers, I'm sure will too (but I like my 'berg better).

 

[flybars]

I see your point. And I do want my next bike to be light. My '05 Fse is lighter than my xr which is lighter than the sold Drz440S. So I am leaning that way. Who knows, maybe GG will come out with a 300 4t that is EFI and as light as the lighter 250F's? That would be interesting too.