Rear Race Sag? (Prepare to have your mind blown...)

[motopsycho87]

So, I've got my clickers to how I feel is almost perfect for the enduro terrain in my area, lots of small bumps, small jumps etc. My problem is RUTS or THICK MUD, in which I am leaning back and looking straight ahead, but still the front likes to get lost in ruts etc far too easily.

My sag settings are "perfect" as to racetech's specs;

Front Static - 35
Front Race - 70

Rear static - 35
Rear Race - 100

Now, for my current problem, there seems to be 2 fixes -

Stiffen up the front end, less rebound damping and more compression damping, this in turn would make the front PLOUGH through the terrain better, but sacrificing the plush ride I have been tuning to.

Adjust front/rear balance, increasing the race sag on the rear will take weight off of the front and allow it to track more lightly across mud and ruts without sacrificing the plushness.

My forks are flush with the top of the clamps, but I am using a Mitas rear tyre which is quite tall!


So, question 1 is, what rear race sag setting do you guys prefer? (THIS IS THE IMPORTANT ONE )

And question 2 is, I have the correct spring for my weight, 35/100 is a perfect sag figure, now, if I go to say, 120mm race rag, my static sag will increase to say, 45/50mm, this brings me far further from the ideal 35mm sag. Should this just be ignored, or should I get a softer spring to compensate? I'm assuming it should be ignored.

 

[wence]

Not sure about springs but on the 12 I went up one from standard.
I generally run 30-35 mm sag (static), 115-130 mm(race).
Works for me.
Ofcourse it depends on clickers too, just don't ask where mine are set cos I'll say "where it feels good for the terrain".
Mark

 

[Jakobi]

Depends on the chasis. I run around 110-115mm race sag with a 5.6 rate spring on the old chasis, yet the 2013 with different chasis and linkage gets me where it feels best with a 5.4 rate spring and 98mm race sag. I always aim for a little less preload/larger static sag (30-40mm).

I think the simple thing to do is to back some preload off a bit, ride and report.

 

[motopsycho87]

Yeah I'll back it off until static sag is 40mm and see where my race sag sits. Probably be Xmas eve before I get out there!

 

[motopsycho87]

Some forums seem to think you should get your 30/100 ratio right, then changes after are fine regardless, others say get 35 static at your chosen race...

Anyway! I've set 42.5 static sag for 115 race sag sitting down. Just sitting there is does feel a bit less perched over the front wheel, fingers crossed for next ride out. I'm quite frustrated with my suspension ATM, but my mate who rides a KTM 200exc nearly cried when he felt how smooth mine was... Made me feel a bit better!

 

[Jakobi]

15mm change in race sag is pretty radical. One would expect you to feel the difference for sure. Numbers are just numbers. They're given as a starting point, but depending on a range of variables.

 

[motopsycho87]

I suppose if it feels better in the thick mud etc, the next thing to try is to rail a corner and see if I understeer?

 

[hamilton]

Your sag numbers look perfect to me. My bikes don't respond well to sag over 100mm. (both 12's) I would be increasing compression to offset the added weight for muddy conditions. But suspension set up is mostly trial and error, whatever works best for you.

 

[Jakobi]

Your sag numbers look perfect to me. My bikes don't respond well to sag over 100mm. (both 12's) I would be increasing compression to offset the added weight for muddy conditions. But suspension set up is mostly trial and error, whatever works best for you.

Yeah big differences between the old chasis and the new. The pre 2012 models would happily run up to 120mm and were more sensitive to preload (really noticable if going over 10mm would get harsh in initial movement). Going under 105mm they'd feel very nervous up front. The 2012+ just feels odd with anything over 100mm sag and doesn't want to steer anymore.

Definitely more to it than just numbers. They simply give a good baseline to start with. I personally think somewhere between 105-110mm would be where moto wants to be. Just a matter of fine tuning.

 

[motopsycho87]

Perhaps I should back it off to 40/110 (approx) and give it a try. Only reason I aimed for higher in the scale is that I'm using a mitas c02 rear which are a few mm taller than normal enduro tyres! Next out Xmas eve, I'll bring a hammer and punch out with me .

My main issue has really been an inability to keep the front end light when needed, through acceleration bumps and thick mud. Had a really snotty ride at Chippenham MX 2 weeks ago and just couldn't build stores for fear of the front washing out. Maybe 115 winter, 110 summer? I'll let you know





Thanks for the input guys

 

[motopsycho87]

Bike feels lovely with the current settings, copes really well in the mud now and much much easier to loft the front wheel over stuff. No vague steering yet, and its allowed me to go out 2 clickers of compression on the front, feels extra plush, perfect for tight woods and small jumps etc.

So I would definitely say, get your 35/100 figure on the spring right first, anything after that ignore static sag completely!

 

[Jakobi]

Static sag also allows the rear wheel to fall back further when the ground falls away. We all think about absorbing and tracking bumps, but a lot of people over see the negative contour of the ground. The suspension works in both directions.

 

[motopsycho87]

I 100% agree with you, I'm just stating that getting the Static Sag set at the optimal 100 race sag, then adjusting race sag after to get the characteristics you require, has worked very well for me!