Rear wheel question on 02 XC.

[jgas]

I am replacing the rear wheel bearings on my 02 XC. First off, I love the fact that GG put two large bearings on the sprocket, (drive), side which is where the most torque, and wear takes place. I've never noticed any 2 strokes with that setup. XR 600s and KLR 650s yes, due to weight I imagine. My bike is an 02 250 XC and just now needed (I think, I'm not the original owner), the first set of rear wheel bearings. Good design.

Here's the questions: There is a hole drilled all the way through the spacer between the bearings, approx. 2/3 of the way from one end of the spacer. I assume to allow grease to pass through if you add grease between bearing changes. I've only noticed this hole in the spacer on older XR 600s, (86 back), which used to have grease fittings on the rear wheel. Am I correct about the reason for the hole in the spacer? My bike has no grease fitting, but I would like to add one if I'm right and it would help bearings last longer. The bearings are all double sided-sealed bearings, so theoretically grease would not get into the bearings, but grease filling the empty area of the hub/bearings/spacer/seals would keep water and dirt out wouldn't it? I seem to remember rear wheel bearings on the old Honda XRs rarely went out if you greased the hub occasionally. They also used to have grease fittings on all the linkage and swingarm parts, and I never had any swingarm or linkage fitting failures.

If so, where should I drill and add the grease fitting to the wheel hub? In line with the hole in the spacer? Should the spacer be replaced in the hub with the hole towards the sprocket side? Is there any pics or info on where to add grease fittings to the swingarm/linkage parts?

Also, there is a fairly large rubber O Ring on the outside of the bearing spacer. I drove out the old bearings and the spacer fell out before I noticed it, so I don't know where the O Ring was placed in accordance with the bearings. Again, me assuming, and bearing (pun intended), responsibility for all that assuming brings, that the O ring is there to help keep grease from reaching the brake disc side of the wheel, possibly causing grease to get on the brakes. If I'm correct, I'd also assume that the O Ring would be large enough to contact the outer surface of the inside of the wheel/bearing area of the inside of the hub, but it is not. There is still some space between the O Ring and the hub's inner surface. Should I try to find a thicker O Ring, or add more O Rings to help keep the grease from getting on the disc?

Now that I am writing this, I just realized that when I stopped seeing grease fittings on the Honda XR line, was about the same time they stopped using drum brakes, went to disc. Any correlation?

(Hope I explained that ok, lot of inner and outer and assuming).

Or am I just being an ass-umer and have no idea why the O ring and hole in the spacer is there and it's another reason entirely?

 

[gasmonkey]

My 02 never had grease in there or heard of any gg hub that does.The 02 design is exactly the same as the new models.No need for it(grease in there).
The large o ring merely centralises the spacer within the hub for reassembly.
Just repack new bearings with quality grease before fitting.
Remember the spacerwasher and it's correct alignment(wayround) between the 2 bearings.
Done properly that setup will do alot of hours before servicing.

 

[GMP]

You don't need grease fittings and they should not be installed on either hubs or linkage. I just don't get how people constantly trash wheel bearings? I suppose its from using the stock soft alloy spacer and ignoring the wheel until its a problem. Just start with fresh bearings and seals and leave the bearings alone, they have the proper amount of grease in them. Use steel or steel sleeved wheel spacers (have made in a shop). The hard anodized ones from Checkpoint are a joke. Pack the area between the bearing outer surface and seal with good grease to act as a barrier if something should get past the seal. Remove the wheel every couple rides and clean/regrease seals.

The inner spacer has the large oring around its OD simply to hold it reasonably square in the hub during assembley, nothing more. Pay attention to the orientation of the spacer washer between the bearings, it is asymetrical and installation position DOES matter.

 

[cbutler]

I think the 02 dose not have the spacer (washer) between the bearings.

If both inner races are the same size no spacer.

Freezing the bearings and LIGHTLY heating the hub makes the job a lot nicer of an install.

 

[pscook]

I think the 02 dose not have the spacer (washer) between the bearings.

If both inner races are the same size no spacer.

Freezing the bearings and LIGHTLY heating the hub makes the job a lot nicer of an install.

I had no spacer on my 2002, and it was confirmed somewhere way back when (last year) on the forum.

 

[GMP]

Yes, sorry, the new hubs with two size bearings and the spacer started in '03.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[StuJohnson]

" Use steel or steel sleeved wheel spacers (have made in a shop). "

You are truly the engineer on this forum. Now where can I get me these steel spacers?

 

[GMP]

You have to make them, or have them made at a shop. I have made two types since '03. One solid stainless, heavy, but is still good! Latest ones are alloy with a stainless sleeve pressed on. DO NOT buy the Checkpoint parts. The ones I had were undersized in an attempt to eliminate grooving, and the seal barely contacted the spacer. I mean Really? I had them cut and the SS sleeve added, you can do the same wit the OEM part.

 

[jgas]

My wheel may have been replaced with a newer one? Mine has two larger bearings on the sprocket side and one smaller one on the disc side, but no washer. Are we talking about a washer/spacer behind the axle nut, between the wheel adjuster and the axle nut? Wasn't there, but could have been left out at some point by a previous owner. I still wonder why the spacer has a hole drilled through it. If not for grease, what?

We do have a lot of water crossings and mud where I ride, and eventually some water works its way in no matter how good the seals are, bearings are, or brand of bike. Everyone around here has this happen in the wet months on all bikes.

There was a little dirt inside the hub, but both bearings on the sprocket side probably could be re-used, while the single smaller one on the disc side fell completely apart. The wheel just had a little slack like they always do when a bearing is getting worn, then fell apart suddenly. I suspect a failure of some kind due to a poorly made part or something weird like that. Again, I've never had one go from a little slack in the wheel to a complete failure in one ride.

I admit, I ain't gonna take my rear wheel off, remove the hub seals, bearings, remove the seals from the bearings, and regrease them every 2 rides. I'd rather replace the bearings whenever they get some slack or don't turn freely. Far less time involved that way. My dealer ordered me a kit for 35.00, and if I get a year of hard riding I'll be happy. I do remove and inspect the outer hub seals and turn the bearings by hand and feel for slack or not turning smoothly every time I have reason to remove the wheel.

I've found that the better quality brand double sealed bearings have enough grease when new, but that grease seems to be kind of thin to me. I usually remove most of that grease and repack with thick waterproof Marine grade grease, or Bel Ray waterproof grease. I've bought bearings from Rocky Mountain and found them to variously have almost no grease, really good thick grease, or kind of in between. They seem to constantly change manufacturers of all their parts and the quality is inconsistent, but the price is always good as is customer service. I always check and repack any cheaper bearings I buy before installation.

This time my dealer had to order a bearing kit and I didn't want to wait, so I had them ordered for spares but went to a industrial supply house and bought the best grade replacement bearings they had. The parts guy there told me that particular brand always is packed with good hi-temp grease and they have very few failures. He had 3 quality grades of bearings in those sizes, and choice of single or double sealed. I got the best he had, double sealed. If they last well I'll post back in a year or so with the brand. I think it was SKF? I should probably add that my dealer is a KTM/Kaw. dealer and just started selling GasGas bikes and isn't stocking parts yet, so he had to order a Moose brand kit.

Also need to mention that the owner of the dealership was who told me about the other place to get bearings right away and gave me directions. I went back to the dealership after going to the industrial supply place and helped them push bikes in at closing time.

Kawasaki/KTM !!!!GAS-GAS!!!! Sports Center, Little Rock Ar. He's also sponsoring a local Harescramble racer on a new GasGas, he's sold the 13' models he had, and only has a 200 and 300 12' models left, deep discounts, and he has ordered more bikes.

 

[GMP]

No, if its a '03+ wheel, there should be a special spacer washer between the two sprocket side bearings, which are different sizes. The function of this is to transfer the torque load of tightening the wheel across the bearing inner races, so they do not bind. Consult the parts breakdown of the wheel. It's a lot like a KTM wheel on that side.

I have mud and water here too, and in south NJ it's like quicksand and grinding compound when it's wet sometimes. I'm not talking about disassembling the wheel for PM. All I'm saying is wipe the seal and spacer clean, scrape a little grease out of the gap with a screwdriver, and pack a little fresh in there. Takes seconds. Trust me it works, but you need good hard steel or steel lined spacers that don't groove for starters. Alloy spacers are a joke.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[jgas]

I get it now. After taking another look, the spacer between the 2 drive side bearings is not there, I suppose left out by previous owner. And both bearings seem to be the same on that side. Maybe he lost the spacer and just used two same size bearings? I've had the bike for about a year and ridden it quite a bit, and the drive side bearings were somewhat worn but probably could have been used again. For now I'm going to have to put it back together like it was and then buy the right bearings with spacer or a whole wheel with spacers.

Also, there was only one bearing on the brake side. After taking another look, it looks like there is what is left of an old bearing race still pressed in the hub. I think a previous owner probably waited until the bearings failed totally before replacing, maybe the inside bearing on the brake side fell apart and he couldn't get the old race out. It's pretty tough to do when the bearing falls apart. There is not much of a surface to get a punch or anything on to drive it out. I've had to cut them out with a diamond abrasive grindstone on a Dremel before, and it takes forever. And I always caused some minor damage to the hub which couldn't be helped, but didn't ruin the wheel.

I get into this stuff because I never buy new bikes and end up fixing other peoples problems. I'm getting pretty good at making stuff work though.

All this probably solves the mystery of why my inner bearing spacer has a hole drilled all the way through it. It is probably not factory GG. When he left out one of the bearings on the brake side he had to find a longer spacer from another bike or some other pipe stock to replace it. But what the heck, whoever did it made it work, I've ridden the bike for a year. And I've seen plenty of bikes with only one bearing on the brake side, so I can use it for awhile.

Or maybe, the whole wheel is not factory? It looks like a factory rim, has that cool rounded look to it, but they might have used a different brand hub with a factory rim? I made a Suzuki wheel work on a Honda once. Only had to make one spacer a little longer (from a KTM spacer), and the other a little shorter to make the brake and sprocket align. Rode it for years like that.

I will start cleaning out the area under the seals more often. I've done that from time to time, but since I started using better chain/sprockets and mostly Trials tires I don't need to remove the rear wheel very often so I don't think to clean it out.

I need to fix all my old bikes, sell them, and buy a new (or newer), GG 4 stroke so I can do dual sport, race, trail ride, whatever on one bike.

 

[pscook]

I have a 2002 XC300 and it is the exact same configuration as yours. The bearing spacer/washer was introduced in 2003 (or 2004). The spacer has an oring around it to help center the spacer, and there is a hole in the spacer. Why is there a hole? Don't know, but it doesn't affect the functionality. Regarding the brake side bearing, I can't explain yours without seeing it, but I had no issues with mine. There is a smaller bearing on the brake side than the drive side, but it's not necessarily a bad thing. I ordered an All Balls kit and it fit perfectly. I actually ordered three of them over the last year so I could replace my shot set as well as have a spare set on hand just in case.

I don't think you have anything but an OEM rear wheel, so use some caution when you are working on the brake side bearing surface. It might just be configured that way.