Recurring coolant/oil mixing issue?

[95jersey]

I had some other threads regarding my woes with my 2014 300.

I have coolant mixing with the oil in the crankcase. There seems to be no oil in the coolant though.

This is the second time this has happened. The first time, I rebuilt the water pump assembly with a new kit from Halls and that did the trick for about 10-15 hours. I now just found some coolant mixed in with my oil again and of course was down a few ounces of coolant in the radiator. This time it wasn't a full release of fluid as before, so not as much of a mess.

I am very concerned because the continued release of water into the crankcase is going to cause rust to bearings and clutch components.

Anybody know what is going on here? Just as a note I replaced all the gaskets with new gaskets when doing all the work.

 

[desertgasser300]

I had some other threads regarding my woes with my 2014 300.

I have coolant mixing with the oil in the crankcase. There seems to be no oil in the coolant though.

This is the second time this has happened. The first time, I rebuilt the water pump assembly with a new kit from Halls and that did the trick for about 10-15 hours. I now just found some coolant mixed in with my oil again and of course was down a few ounces of coolant in the radiator. This time it wasn't a full release of fluid as before, so not as much of a mess.

I am very concerned because the continued release of water into the crankcase is going to cause rust to bearings and clutch components.

Anybody know what is going on here? Just as a note I replaced all the gaskets with new gaskets when doing all the work.

Sorry you're having so many issues with your 14'. Has the bike been overheated in its short life time? Have you had the head off, the o rings be knackered? Or a bad seal on the clutch side, causing seeping into the crank oil? I would be as frustrated as you and you have a right to be.

Anyways, myself I would be pulling covers off one at a time slowly to find traces of the leak. As far as replacing gaskets, I cut most of my own, all but the cylinder. As far as rust, do you run water or coolant in yours? Coolant has a rust inhibitor in it.

 

[95jersey]

Sorry you're having so many issues with your 14'. Has the bike been overheated in its short life time? Have you had the head off, the o rings be knackered? Or a bad seal on the clutch side, causing seeping into the crank oil? I would be as frustrated as you and you have a right to be.

Anyways, myself I would be pulling covers off one at a time slowly to find traces of the leak. As far as replacing gaskets, I cut most of my own, all but the cylinder. As far as rust, do you run water or coolant in yours? Coolant has a rust inhibitor in it.

It has been overheated. I have already rebuilt the top end and the water pump and put in all new gaskets and seals throughout. O rings are perfect. I took great care in doing the rebuild precisely. I tried to track down the leak before and the problem is once it leaks the coolant goes everywhere, it is impossible to track down the exact location of the leak.

I run engine ice (no water), but my understanding is that stuff is mixed with distilled water.

Not sure if the water pump seal failed again or the leak is now in a different place. The good news is that oil is not getting into the radiator, so the leak appears one way. All suggestions welcome. YES I AM FUSTRATED.

 

[memphis2857]

Sounds much like a water pump seal. Could it have been a faulty seal? Or could it be that you have had a very small leak the entire time since the rebuild and the water is just now accumulated enough to show its ugly face?


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[95jersey]

Sounds much like a water pump seal. Could it have been a faulty seal? Or could it be that you have had a very small leak the entire time since the rebuild and the water is just now accumulated enough to show its ugly face?


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The crazy thing is that once I rebuild the water pump, the problem resolved itself and now it is back. Just wondering how a new seal kit could fail so fast.

 

[Jakobi]

How many hours before it started doing this? How many hours since you fixed it? Have you pressure tested it?

I know of one bike here in Australia where I was helping them try and track down a similar issue. Ended up being a porous head (after doing everything inc splitting the cases). I imagine if you had a head that was borderline poorly cast and then overheated it, it could be a source of issue.

I'd be pressure testing it.

 

[pscook]

Did you replace the waterpump shaft when you rebuilt the pump? On the YZ four strokes if you didn't replace the shaft and the seal at the same time, the seal would fail in about 2 hours. The shaft wears just enough as the seal wears that the two items must be replaced as a single unit. The little itty-bitty wear mark on the shaft is enough to cause the new seal to fail almost immediately, hence the "replace as a pair."

 

[95jersey]

Thanks for all the advice. Bike had maybe 40 hours when it first leaked coolant into the oil and less than 10 since it happened again.

I thought about the head as this problem surfaced after the overheating, but wouldn't a porous head be a constant slow leak that would not have resolved itself with the pump seal repair? Meaning fixing the water pump did resolve the issue for a short period and I had no coolant in the oil, then BAM.

I did not replace the shaft. I bought a "kit" from halls and it did not include the shaft (just seals). I sure hope it is not the head, but the fact that it ran fine with no coolant leak for about 8 hours tells me that is highly unlikely (I hope).

With Gas Gas going bankrupt, if my bike is going to break down this often, I am seriously thinking about fixing it then putting it on the market. How long will I be able to get these parts?

 

[gasgasman]

Could be a leak on the inner clutch cover gasket. At the point where the coolant enters the water pump.

 

[95jersey]

Could be a leak on the inner clutch cover gasket. At the point where the coolant enters the water pump.

Replaced that twice just to make sure. I guess it is either the head or the pump again. I am leaning to the pump as the initial fix corrected the problem for a short time.

Guess I will buy another pump kit with a shaft this time and see if that works.

I must have some kind of aurora that causes every bike in my presence to break as I had the same back luck with my Italian Husky. I was hoping that the Gas Gas being a 2 stroke would simplify the whole experience, boy was I wrong...

 

[desertgasser300]

Replaced that twice just to make sure. I guess it is either the head or the pump again. I am leaning to the pump as the initial fix corrected the problem for a short time.

Guess I will buy another pump kit with a shaft this time and see if that works.

I must have some kind of aurora that causes every bike in my presence to break as I had the same back luck with my Italian Husky. I was hoping that the Gas Gas being a 2 stroke would simplify the whole experience, boy was I wrong...

That's sucks! I have a buddy who is the same way. This guy carries a dark cloud with him. Any bike he has bought has the weirdest stuff happen to it. It started when we where 10 yrs old. His dad bought him a brand new RM80 we rode the crap out of our bikes on the farm fields, he jumps a ditch and cases the bike on the only rock within a mile around and cracks the case. It's been downhill ever since. Clutch cables snapping in the middle of know where, throttle sticking along a canal bank I could go on? He finally gave up dirt bikes and has now settled to riding in a sidexside.

Off topic I know, just thought I might distract you for a minute?

 

[dANbOT]

Just because this leak is being such a pain in the butt, I would be pressure testing and finding the leak to know 100% what it is this time. Just in case there is a strange flaw / defect somewhere right?

How are the water pump bearings? It does seem odd to me that you would wear out the seal in such a small hour count.

 

[95jersey]

I spoke with Halls and they said the only way for coolant to get into the crankcase was either a failed clutch cover gasket or a failed water pump seal. They said a cracked head or base gasket would not allow coolant to get into the crankcase and would cause other symptoms.

So while the pressure test overall is a good idea, it is almost pointless since I know it is not the clutch cover gasket, so it has to be the pump seal.

Ordered a new pump rebuild kit, but this time with the bearings and shaft.

Hopefully that fixes the problem for good, if not, then there are some other inherent problems in the case or pump casting, causing a recurring failure, in which I will just get rid of the bike all together.

 

[Jakobi]

Replaced that twice just to make sure. I guess it is either the head or the pump again. I am leaning to the pump as the initial fix corrected the problem for a short time.

Guess I will buy another pump kit with a shaft this time and see if that works.

I must have some kind of aurora that causes every bike in my presence to break as I had the same back luck with my Italian Husky. I was hoping that the Gas Gas being a 2 stroke would simplify the whole experience, boy was I wrong...

I changed the water pump seal on my 2010 model at 260hrs when I did the bottom end, for maintenance purposes only.. It's unfortunate yours has chewed threw 2 in such short time. I'd be going over everything with a fine tooth comb.

If you have coolant in the transmission oil the only way it'll get there is if you have a serious casting issue in the cases, failed gaskets, or a pump seal failure.

Head/Oring failure will show different signs including either losing coolant into the crankcase (bottom end - not tranny), or overpressurising the cooling system and blowing it out the overflow.

It sounds like you've narrowed it down to the impellor seal, which makes sense if it did resolve for a period of time. Check the shaft well, make sure the new seal goes in safely, and I'd also spend some time checking the bearings it rides in and replacing if required. If the bearing has excessive play/tolerance and the shaft is allowed to move it could also wear the seal prematurely.