Reg/Rec Help

[CDN Rick]

I've got a '12 300. It originally had an e-start system on it but the original owner took it off to save weight. I'm not a good enough rider for the weight to matter, and I'd like to get it working again. I have all the components except a regulator rectifier. The wiring coming out of my stator is:

White - Goes to nothing. Open spade connection.

Yellow - Goes into a loom and disappears. I assume its supplying power to the headlight itself.

Red, Green, Black/Red, Red/White, All go into the CDI Unit. (a few wires come out of the CDI and go to an alternator regulator.)

Can anyone explain to me what type of Reg/Rec I need. Is there an OEM one? I don't see it anywhere on the parts fiche. (EDIT: Just found Part # EE51200GG-CAB-1 on MattoCycles fiche. for a 2015 Regulator. I'd rather not use it as that would necessitate a wiring harness made for it.)

How would I wire a standard 5wire Reg/Rec? Can I use a standard 5 wire unit?


Please be aware I know almost nothing about electrical. Assume I'm incompetent. I probably am. I'm of the belief that electrons are the devils playground.

 

[Neil E.]

I recommend you buy the correct GG part for a 2012.
EE512002510 voltage regulator/rectifier

If you have all the parts and the RR has been lost, you still should have the harness with the stock connector.

I was just working on a buddy's 2012 estart bike last weekend. The RR is the same as on my 2011 bike. 2011 is the first year for estart. Use Matto's dropdown menu and select 2011 electric start, then wiring harness and you will see the RR part number (item 9 in the diagram).

http://www.gasgaspartsguy.com/OEMpartfinder.htm

Matto's 2012 listing is for a standard non-estart bike.
The 2011 fiche specifically lists the estart parts.

 

[CDN Rick]

I recommend you buy the correct GG part for a 2012.
EE512002510 voltage regulator/rectifier

If you have all the parts and the RR has been lost, you still should have the harness with the stock connector.

I was just working on a buddy's 2012 estart bike last weekend. The RR is the same as on my 2011 bike. 2011 is the first year for estart. Use Matto's dropdown menu and select 2011 electric start, then wiring harness and you will see the RR part number (item 9 in the diagram).

http://www.gasgaspartsguy.com/OEMpartfinder.htm

Matto's 2012 listing is for a standard non-estart bike.
The 2011 fiche specifically lists the estart parts.

Unfortunately I do not believe the harness has a standard plug for the reg/rec. I certainly haven't seen it. And I'm not sure where to find it. It is possible the PO cut it off. But I haven't seen any cut wires.

I don't really trust much on this bike as parts of it were held together with wood screws when I bought it.

 

[hamilton]

I pulled the e-start from my 12 250, made no changes to the harness.
You should have a 4 pin connector at the coil/cdi area. yellow, yellow/green stripe, white, red/black stripe.
Does it still have key switch that works?

 

[Neil E.]

Hamilton is correct on the wire colors. The connector is flat and measures about .25" x 1.5" in size. It is white plastic and plugs into the black RR socket.

 

[Neil E.]

(a few wires come out of the CDI and go to an alternator regulator.)

Show us a picture of this device.

 

[hamilton]

I think the part you are calling the alternator regulator (silver), is what your trying to install. I'm sure the previous owner was lazy like me and didn't change anything.

 

[CDN Rick]

I think the part you are calling the alternator regulator (sliver), is what your trying to install. I'm sure the previous owner was lazy like me and didn't change anything.

I doubt it. The original key has been removed. I've looked up both the part number for the 11-13 RR and the 14-17 RR and have not seen either of those parts on my bike. I'll try to check again tonight. I did however see a voltage regulator.

Show us a picture of this device.

I believe it looked like this. I'll try to confirm that tonight.

I had the entire bike apart this winter and did a top end on the motor as well as greased every single bearing on the machine. I take good care of my bikes and know this one quite well. I'm pretty confident in saying that there is no RR on the bike at this moment. I'll try to get some photo's together of the wiring under the tank and you can see what I'm up against.

I've added an Emgo universal switch as I didn't have the OEM GasGas handlebar switch and didn't want to pay for a new one. It looks like this. I have it wired as a kill switch and it controls my headlight on/off. I intend to use it for a starter button as well. But none of this will affect my current problem.

 

[Neil E.]

That picture is a basic voltage regulator. It is used on non-estart bikes. It exists to clip your AC lighting voltage so the bulbs don't burn out.

The rectifier/regulator has a silver color (aluminum case). These are AC to DC devices so you have battery charging. This is the standard part on an estart bike.

 

[CDN Rick]

That picture is a basic voltage regulator. It is used on non-estart bikes. It exists to clip your AC lighting voltage so the bulbs don't burn out.

The rectifier/regulator has a silver color (aluminum case). These are AC to DC devices so you have battery charging. This is the standard part on an estart bike.

That is what I thought as well. So it would follow to reason that the PO did indeed completely switch out the system. Possibly even swapping the wiring harness. I'll check tonight and post pictures but I believe I am correct in my assumptions.

If I am correct I would like to wire a new RR in without changing the entire harness. Is that possible? Would anyone know what wires to connect to what if I had a 5 wire standard RR?


I'm beginning to wonder if the previous owner never actually had an Estart system on the bike but instead just purchased "most" of the parts required and told me that he had it all on at one point.....

 

[Neil E.]

I'd need a picture and more details on a "5 wire standard RR".

If it is an aftermarket fullwave RR, then you've got to float/isolate the stator ground so the RR will work. You battery minus is required to be grounded for the starter motor to work, so you must isolate the stator lighting output in order to use a fullwave RR.

The stock stator is grounded because the stock RR construction allows this to work with a grounded battery. As soon as you deviate from the stock estart RR, the sytem also has to change. Now your lighting grounds must be lifted from the chassis ground and connected to the new isolated stator ground (which is no longer connected to engine/chassis ground). The isolated stator ground is no longer a ground, it is simply the "other side of the circuit".

The easier way is to buy an estart harness and stock RR.

 

[Neil E.]

Be careful when ordering anything to do with an estart bike because the fiches may not list the parts correctly.

 

[CDN Rick]

I'd need a picture and more details on a "5 wire standard RR".

If it is an aftermarket fullwave RR, then you've got to float/isolate the stator ground so the RR will work. You battery minus is required to be grounded for the starter motor to work, so you must isolate the stator lighting output in order to use a fullwave RR.

The stock stator is grounded because the stock RR construction allows this to work with a grounded battery. As soon as you deviate from the stock estart RR, the sytem also has to change. Now your lighting grounds must be lifted from the chassis ground and connected to the new isolated stator ground (which is no longer connected to engine/chassis ground). The isolated stator ground is no longer a ground, it is simply the "other side of the circuit".

The easier way is to buy an estart harness and stock RR.

Trailtech makes a standard RR with 5 wires.

2 Yellow
1 Yellow/Red
1 Black
1 Red

It looks like this. It is a FullWave RR Here is the link http://www.trailtech.net/electrical/electrical-accessories/7004-rr150

 

[Neil E.]

They have this disclaimer on the RR page:

Trail Tech's Regulator/Rectifier is not an OEM replacement and will not work with most factory stators. The stator must have a floated ground, modifications to the stator may be required.

Hook it up like the attached diagram.

 

[CDN Rick]

They have this disclaimer on the RR page:

Trail Tech's Regulator/Rectifier is not an OEM replacement and will not work with most factory stators. The stator must have a floated ground, modifications to the stator may be required.

Hook it up like the attached diagram.

Did you draw that specifically for me? If so you are the kindest individual I've never had the pleasure of meeting!

Thank you so much!!

 

[Neil E.]

You are welcome. The Trailtech diagrams are confusing since they are for non-estart bikes and are based on floating/isolating the battery ground.

 

[CDN Rick]

You are welcome. The Trailtech diagrams are confusing since they are for non-estart bikes and are based on floating/isolating the battery ground.

Wow. Thanks so much! I'll get on this and let you know how it all turns out. I still need to source a battery. Likely going Lithium and then just use the kicker when the bike is still cold. But this clears up all my confusion about what I need and how to wire it up. Thanks again!

I've already replaced my groundup bendix gears with the late 80's Honda CH80 Scooter one and stretched the weight spring to allow it to mesh better, not to get power to it all.

 

[CDN Rick]

Here is a pic of what is def a voltage regulator on my bike. No open plug on the harness that I can find.

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[Neil E.]

That is a voltage regulator used on the stock AC bikes. Maybe the previous owner put that on when he removed the estart parts.

As to stator modification: Instead of fishing a new wire down the harness for your floated ground point, you could remove the yellow from it's location and move it. Solder it to the ground wire that you unhook from the ground lug. So the yellow wire is now "the other side of the circuit".

White will be the "top" of the windings and yellow will be the "bottom" of the windings. There is a voltage trimmer on the TrailTech RR so with the engine at moderate RPMs you should be able to adjust it for approx 13.5 to 14.5 VDC output. This is based on a battery that you've already charged before installing.

I use a Ballistic brand 8 cell Lithium ion battery. It is closer in size to the stock battery than the Shorai battery that most guys use. It has a higher cranking capacity.

 

[CDN Rick]

That is a voltage regulator used on the stock AC bikes. Maybe the previous owner put that on when he removed the estart parts.

As to stator modification: Instead of fishing a new wire down the harness for your floated ground point, you could remove the yellow from it's location and move it. Solder it to the ground wire that you unhook from the ground lug. So the yellow wire is now "the other side of the circuit".

White will be the "top" of the windings and yellow will be the "bottom" of the windings. There is a voltage trimmer on the TrailTech RR so with the engine at moderate RPMs you should be able to adjust it for approx 13.5 to 14.5 VDC output. This is based on a battery that you've already charged before installing.

I use a Ballistic brand 8 cell Lithium ion battery. It is closer in size to the stock battery than the Shorai battery that most guys use. It has a higher cranking capacity.

Size isn't near as important to me as I will be building my own battery box anyways. I'm not a fan of how much the factory one comes into the airbox on the '12 bikes.

Do you think the Ballistic 4 cell would be adequate for cranking over the starter after the bike is already warmed up and the battery has had draw moving through it for the headlight?