sand riding

[west aussie gas 450]

We have a lot sand tracks nth of Perth Western Australia an some limestone in between, the problem is do you go flat out or steady steady? I try flat out at a local free style in the bush it can get pretty hairy but geez what a rush having a 450 flying around the park ,worse thing is old wheel tracks i tend to become pretty air tight over them& control is lacking any ideas?

 

[FFRDave]

Sand technique

All I ride is sand dunes.
You have to be in the powerband in order to have any sense of control in the sand. If you try to go easy and slow, your front tire will just wallow and sink. Agressive is the way to go in the sand.
Fork angle or rear sag has a lot to do with how much your front end will wallow too. Imagine a chopper street-bike with a low rear end. A chopper is incredably stable at HWY speed, but turns are very hard to manage. The chopper wants to go in a streight line, and hates to turn. A cafe' racer, on the other hand is all about quick sprints between corners. The cafe' racer loves to turn, but will wobble at high speeds. For the sand, you want the chopper. Lower your rear end, by increasing the rear racing sag. This is the amount that the rear fender comes closer to the rear wheel hub, when you are on the bike, in riding position. If you do not have enough rear sag, your bike will be very twitchey, darting left & right in the sand.

You mentioned old wheel tracks & getting pretty air tight over them, and lacking control. If the sand your riding in is dry, you wont have much old wheel tracks, because of the way sand (dry sand) tends to settle.
I dont know exactly what you meant by "air tight", but I do understand the lack of control you feel.
Your probably talking about moist or wet sand. I have never gotten over that lack of control feeling until I got my Gas gas. The bike feels like its wandering left and right with the sandy ruts. I have found that as long as I stay in the powerband, the bike doesnt even feel those ruts. Its all in my head. It helps me to keep my focus farther ahead, about five meters out in front (rather than one or two meters).

I just lean back and pound through the rutted nasty sandy whoops.

I hope I helped....

 

[motorhead]

A friend of mine who used to live in florida once told me "If you can ride sand fast you can ride any terrain fast".Its a different technique and one I struggled with years ago,but I kept riding it and finally got the hang of it.
Set-up is important I always lower my forks in the clamps and slow down compression and rebound front and rear.This seems to help but the main thing in sand is momentum=keep it going-on the gas-on the pipe.Dont need front brakes as much if any as "sugar" sand slows you alot by just letting off throttle.Also I dont try to fight the bike if it follows ruts or tracks,just keep it pointed in the general direction of travel and keep it on the pipe.Go with the flow in sand or it will wear you out very quick.The faster you go the less the bike will wander as youre "on top" of the sand=not wallowing "in" it.In whoops I do try and squeeze my bikes midsection to keep her straight,also alot of times you can turn two whoops into one by seat bouncing or preloading and jumping two at a time.Dragging the rear brake slightly with a little body english works good for changing your line in whoops with the front end up.Alwas ride a little farther back keeping front light or it will knife more,and stay farther back in the saddle for turns so front tire wont plow.

 

[west aussie gas 450]

Sand Riding

Thanks guys for the tips i find it hard to get a good rhythm as i work 2 weeks on an 1 week off on a mine, i only get a few days each month to ride but tried your tips an went well.I'm having little problem in keeping up with my mates who have wr's& crf's an they thought the 450fse was slow have changed thier mind .THANKS GUYS

 

[bxb]

Right hand down, try not to die..................

 

[Loosenut]

I grew up riding off-road motorcycles in Florida. Sand and lots of it. Anyway, my best piece of advice is drop your speed before you get to a turn so that you can accererate before you even start your turn. This will help keep your front wheel from digging in. You must be aggresive.

 

[JRDoz]

I prefer to weight the rear wheel and gas it only changing direction with the throttle

 

[colinmc400]

We have a lot sand tracks nth of Perth Western Australia an some limestone in between, the problem is do you go flat out or steady steady? I try flat out at a local free style in the bush it can get pretty hairy but geez what a rush having a 450 flying around the park ,worse thing is old wheel tracks i tend to become pretty air tight over them& control is lacking any ideas?

Bazz, being new to WA, i have also had to get to grips with the conditions you describe. I had never ridden in sand before coming to Perth 12 months ago and when out with my mates round Alkimos/Yanchep/Barbagello pines etc, you can really tell who was brought up on it. Just a couple of bits of advise from me, for what its worth as a Sand novice. Look and plan further ahead than you would do on other terrain, giving yourself the best chance at getting a good line round, in the the right gear and with the front as light as possible. I find if i get right up close to another bike and be on the brakes late into the corner, it all goes pear shaped. I cannot get a good run through the corner and the front wants to dig in and not steer where its pointed.

On the straights, where there's soft sandy ruts and tyre marks, being positive is the only way. Stood up, Lent back and with at least a steady throttle on. We rode up the beach at Wedge on Saturday and it amazes me still that just rolling the throttle off has such a big effect. At one point i rolled off and started to dig in. It took 2 down changes to get the front back up and off i went no problem. That just proves the point of keeping the front light. The ruts shouldn't faze you if you are on the gas, as the front wheel can just blow through them. Again i find them harder when going slow, as they tend to want to make the front wheel track where they are pointed, or cause me to become unbalanced. That whole Alkmos bowl/dune area should give you plenty of practise at the ruts and whooops tho

The limestone we get here gets treated like whoops, where i lean back to lighten the front and try and stay at least on a steady throttle, if not try and accelerate. I am slightly fortunate in having a damper on my KTM450 and moouses in both wheels, so deflections of the rocks are not so bad and i don;t have to worry about punctures.

Try a Lancellin to Cervantes ride with the Crustys and you'll get to grips with the limestone

 

[jaret10]

sand isnt really what i mainly ride but when there is i used to struggle with it, but growing up my dad always told me to sit on the back fender and stay on the pipe, now im more of a stand up rider and i lean back as far as possible putting all my weight on the rear tire and stay on the gas just moving my weight to the back tire, keeping momentum up, and staying on the gas has helped me tremendously in the sand i rarely ever find myself having problems untill i fly up on someone else darting from side to side that causes me to slow down, i also run a trials tire im not sure if thats better or worse but the traction you get everywhere else is a big bonus. building up the momentum after that person slowed you down is rough but once you build your momentum up its all good again

 

[MrBlah]

all I ride in is sand now, weight back standing on pegs except in turns

and lots of throttle to keep the front end light

 

[Heathen]

We have an endless sand play ground up here. The key is to pin it off the start in deep sand and ride at a speed that alows you to ride ontop of the sand. If you and going too slow you will sink in the sand and be fighting every little rut and bump as the sand pushs you around.

 

[jgas]

There is only one place in my region to ride in deep sand and it's over 3hrs away so I don't go there much. I really hate sand until I ride in it for about an hour, then I am fast and comfortable for about 30 min, then I'm worn out from the first hr of fighting it. To me, the only way to be fast and smooth in sand is to constantly ride hard and attack it. I usually ride on extreme rocks and technical stuff, so going to sand is the biggest change possible. Speed and agression, with proper technique and no laziness gets it done. You really need to stand 90% of the time as well, which I can't due to a bum leg which is too weak, so when I am going to ride in deep sand I use a very tall seat. I am 6'2", so I mean reallllly tall! So tall I can barely touch the ground. It makes the seated-standing transition much easier, and even when I'm sitting, I can move around better, weight the pegs easier, and slide back and forth. With the very tall seat I can manage to stand maybe 40% of the time, while most of the time in technical terrain I sit about 90%. With a low seat I can barely stand any.

If you are young and strong, forget the tall seat trick, just stand up!

I also like to set up my bike much stiffer than usual. It seems to help keep the bike up on top and floating rather than wallowing. Also, in deep sand is the only time I'm a true power junkie. A very quick 2 stroke is best for me in sand, the lighter and faster the better. In rocks I like a manageable power,soft suspended bike. 20 years go I was about equal speed on a powerful 4t or 2t, but lately the extra weight of a 4t, and the slower power delivery really work against me.

Can you say: KX/CR/YZ/KTM/500 2stroke? My favorite was the KX. It had a good powervalve so it had a somewhat manageable low end with endless top end. Another great bike for sand is an older KTM 380 2 stroke. They were slow turning and stable and had almost all of the power of a 500. I'm sure a GG 300 XC would also be very good.

But the main thing, as for anywhere, PRACTICE! All the setup in the world in no replacement for hard work and dilligence.

Speaking of practice, I read that in years past all of the Euro MX teams, who often had long whooped out sand tracks to ride, made their riders push bikes around the track in the sand! Can you imagine, pushing a bike all the way around a sand track?

I read of one US rider that when he first started riding for one of the Euro teams couldn't even push his bike 1/4 of the way around a sand track. Within 6 months he would push a lap, ride a lap, push-ride for an hour straight for training. Then rest an hour, eat, drink, then do 2 45 min motos with 15mins. rest in between. Now that's training. Scott Summers also pushed his bike for training, and he rode an XR 600!