Shiver 45 internal measurements

[AdrenalineJunky]

Hi guys!

I´m about to play a little with Shimrestackor and I need the specs of the internals! Pistons, rod etc...

Can I find them somewhere or has someone measured everything and would like to share?

Anders

 

[noobi]

What year zoke fork, they changed the factory spec stock valving a few times.

 

[GMP]

Do a search, much exists here including pics.

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

What year zoke fork, they changed the factory spec stock valving a few times.

Its a 2008.

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

Do a search, much exists here including pics.

I´ve been searching but cannot find what I´m looking for! Could you help me out?!

/A

 

[moto9]

I´ve been searching but cannot find what I´m looking for! Could you help me out?!

/A

No one is going to have the info you need for that program, hence your model won't yield the correct results.
I don't think anyone measured the port sizes.

Best thing you could do is take apart your fork and shock and measure everything up, then you'd get some good results in that program.
I have an 08 as well and I was planing to do the same thing but never got around to it.
The other issue is getting shims to re-valve, even if you build a model on the program it still needs to be tested in the bike and chances are that you'll need to go back in a few times to make changes.
That means an assortment of different shims on hand.
I have a lot of shims left over from doing race tech kits and even those I had to modify to make them work...which all in all was a lot of work.
I for one would like to see you do it because I have the same bike, let me know if you need any help.

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

moto9. Yes I figured I had to do it myself... Dont hurt to ask though! Although GMP wrote that the info is here? I cant find it though...

Wanted to fiddle with the program and learn, didnt have time to tear down the fork this weekend. BV no problem but the Mid takes abit longer... I do need to add more HS rebound so have to tear it down sooner or later. Dont have the required shims yet.. Going to try grinding down some bigger shims. Dunno if it´ll be a pain...

K-tech Germany sells all kinds of shims by the way! Good source IF U´r located in Europe?

Do you (or anyone else) know of somewhere I can read up on shaft speeds on different type of terrain? Short stroke - high/mid/low speed. Long stroke - high/mid/low etc.



/A

 

[GMP]

Sorry if I wasted your time, I was thinking starting shim stack data and overlooked the fact that you needed port sizes and dimmensions.

You should be able to roughly calculate/approximate fork speed relative to bike speed and the size of an obstacle.

 

[moto9]

Getting to the MV and reb stack is just a few minutes more once the cart is out.
Doesn't that program also need rod size and cart volume or dia ?
I can't remember, I haven't been on that site in a while.

I revalved thru the old school method of test ride, revalve, test again re-re valve.
I finally got everything working how I like it after 1/2 dozen tries.
Do you plan to post the specs, I wouldn't mind checking out the restactor program again.

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

GMP: No worries

moto9: Yes, but compared to pulling the BVs reshim and put them back its a BIG difference in downtime

I will tear them down and measure everything as soon as I get the time... My computer crashed tonight, have to fix that crap and too and HOPEFULLY rescue some information atleast...

What setup are U running moto9? And for what type of riding?

 

[moto9]

GMP: No worries

moto9: Yes, but compared to pulling the BVs reshim and put them back its a BIG difference in downtime

I will tear them down and measure everything as soon as I get the time... My computer crashed tonight, have to fix that crap and too and HOPEFULLY rescue some information atleast...

What setup are U running moto9? And for what type of riding?

I had the settings recorded on my HP laptop...which crashed a few months ago.
I think I have them written down some where...I'll have to look.

I will tell you what I remember,

.45kg springs, 3/w oil @ 130mm

I am running a very slight bleed on the base valve, at first I converted the MV to a check valve, which worked ok except for bigger G-outs and rutted down hills...then they blew thru the stroke too quickly.

I went back to a MV set up and after trying a few variations I ended up with using a 10 (thickness) face shim and about 1.25mm of float.
I heard a 10 is too thin and gets hammered too quickly...but so far I haven't see this with a 100 hours on the bike.
Next time I'm in the fork I'll switch them out for some new ones and RR the bushings.
I had to stiffen up the rebound "a lot"...it took 3 tries to get enough resistance to put the clickers somewhere in the middle.
I think heavier springs are a must do, the stockers are too soft and cause the fork to ride too far into the stroke.
I ride single track, lots of wet greasy roots and rocks and occasionally some high speed 2 track.
No jumping, so I valved them accordingly.

They work pretty darn good, I switched bikes with some other guys I ride with and every one thought that my bike felt plush..yet planted and in control,
a couple of them had some high dollar re-valves.

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

Darn computers! I´ve got mine running again but no Office or restackor yet...

Hmm, didnt your forks come with a CV from the factory?

Mine blows through aswell not enough lowspeed damping but a tad harsh on highspeed edges.

I have .48 springs right now. added rebound but feels like I need more HS rebound.

I do MX aswell as tight singletrack woods and fast gravel roads.

But 3w oil?? Whats the CST on that oil?

 

[moto9]

Darn computers! I´ve got mine running again but no Office or restackor yet...

Hmm, didnt your forks come with a CV from the factory?

Mine blows through aswell not enough lowspeed damping but a tad harsh on highspeed edges.

I have .48 springs right now. added rebound but feels like I need more HS rebound.

I do MX aswell as tight singletrack woods and fast gravel roads.

But 3w oil?? Whats the CST on that oil?

No, My forks had a MV with not enough float IMHO it was set up too stiff for what I ride.
If your using the same bike for mx as well as single track woods, your not going to get the best of both worlds, specially if you hucking some big hits.

I wanted a certain amount of blow through on the fork to soak up the bigger roots...which here in Hawaii are like a 2x12 standing on edge...we have very few rounded roots.
Tuning for this type of terrain was tough, it's like nothing I have ever ridden in the mainland.

You might have more leeway where your at.

I tried 5W oil and it was noticeably harsher, 3w sounds crazy but it was the ticket for me.
I tried so many different combinations to get what I wanted, it literally took me 6 months of testing and re working the suspension to get it right.
Granted, I'm only a weekend rider and a garage tuner.
Also, feel what the fork is doing, I wavered between too much rebound and too little during my testing different stack arrangements.
At one point I could feel the fork soak up the bump nicely but then it would kick back too hard, I knew the rebound was too soft.
When I had the stack too stiff I could feel it pack...which was a different kind of harsh...I was now zeroing in on the right combination.
It took a few more tries but I was on the right track.
A good tuner would have gotten a lot closer and a lot quicker, but I like to DYI for the fun of it.

 

[Klausen]

Hi guys,

I tried also to tune my Shiver 45 model 2006 myself.
Remember you can't compare different marzocchi year models.
Because there are different BV , pistons and RB cartridges.
I think in 2006 and 2008 came many changes.
Which Shiver 45 modell do you have?

I tried 5W oil and it was noticeably harsher, 3w sounds crazy but it was the ticket for me.

This is very strange I need 7,5W below this the fork is toooo soft.
You have to know that the SAE weight system has a very broad and vague viscosity range and does not even cover the viscosity range that most quality motorcycle suspension systems require.
Finally I use a 7,5 but this is a mix 1:1 Motul Expert
SAE 5 and SAE 10
this viscosity is near the Marzocchi fork oil of 26,1 cSt@40C
Also my float is lower - 1mm.
That you use a 22x0.10 MV face shim and it works longer is interesting.
I will try it also and replace my 22x0.15.
my air gap is 110mm but my fork still strike through
45N/mm springs are OK for 86kg driver

may be we can compare the stacks anyway

 

[moto9]

Hi guys,

I tried also to tune my Shiver 45 model 2006 myself.
Remember you can't compare different marzocchi year models.
Because there are different BV , pistons and RB cartridges.
I think in 2006 and 2008 came many changes.
Which Shiver 45 modell do you have?



This is very strange I need 7,5W below this the fork is toooo soft.
You have to know that the SAE weight system has a very broad and vague viscosity range and does not even cover the viscosity range that most quality motorcycle suspension systems require.
Finally I use a 7,5 but this is a mix 1:1 Motul Expert
SAE 5 and SAE 10
this viscosity is near the Marzocchi fork oil of 26,1 cSt@40C
Also my float is lower - 1mm.
That you use a 22x0.10 MV face shim and it works longer is interesting.
I will try it also and replace my 22x0.15.
my air gap is 110mm but my fork still strike through
45N/mm springs are OK for 86kg driver

may be we can compare the stacks anyway

Take into consideration what type of terrain I ride...like I said it's like nothing
I have ever ridden.
I lived in a few different places in the mainland and usually a first valve adjustment or a race tech kit would do the job just fine, but here in Hawaii this jungle single track stuff is littered with roots that resemble boards standing on edge, then add water, greasy mud, rocks, slimy moss, pipe deep ruts, "on and on" it's some shitty stuff.
Valving for this type of riding may be way out in left field for most other situations.

 

[GMP]

I've ridden in Kauai and there is some real alien terrain there. I'm particularly fond of the small dia. tree that grows sideways along the ground, hidden by ferns, then makes a turn up. Very high fork and shock speed (not bike speed) oriented. That said I think the stuff I have here, and the tough NETRA stuff with all the imbedded square edge rocks requires a very similar setup, although overall there is much better traction than the Hawaiian obstacles. There are very few places where you can get out of 4th gear for any time, either the trail is tight or so littered with trash you will flat, bend rims, or crash if you push it too hard for too long.

The difference in the Zokes I have been into is the piston bleed holes. The '07s have a bleed hole in the rebound piston, Husky Zokes don't. BV bleed holes are different sizes. I'm running what Les set up for me in the BV, but added a light MV with approx 1.45mm float and a .15mm face shim(the Zokes may be eaiser on MV face shims and I'll try a .10, but WPs destroy .10s). Spectro 125/150 oil (approx 7 W) and .44s with very little spring preload. Too much preload on too soft springs is one big mistake and makes the fork feel harsh on small stuff and still use too much travel. The other, like was said many times, is the loose rebound being mistaken for a compression problem. When in doubt try one range stiffer spring with 1- 2mm preload. This has worked out to be the best fork I have ever ridden in my terrain, and would not want a Sachs fork equipped bike for this reason.

 

[moto9]

I've ridden in Kauai and there is some real alien terrain there. I'm particularly fond of the small dia. tree that grows sideways along the ground, hidden by ferns, then makes a turn up. Very high fork and shock speed (not bike speed) oriented. That said I think the stuff I have here, and the tough NETRA stuff with all the imbedded square edge rocks requires a very similar setup, although overall there is much better traction than the Hawaiian obstacles. There are very few places where you can get out of 4th gear for any time, either the trail is tight or so littered with trash you will flat, bend rims, or crash if you push it too hard for too long.

The difference in the Zokes I have been into is the piston bleed holes. The '07s have a bleed hole in the rebound piston, Husky Zokes don't. BV bleed holes are different sizes. I'm running what Les set up for me in the BV, but added a light MV with approx 1.45mm float and a .15mm face shim(the Zokes may be eaiser on MV face shims and I'll try a .10, but WPs destroy .10s). Spectro 125/150 oil (approx 7 W) and .44s with very little spring preload. Too much preload on too soft springs is one big mistake and makes the fork feel harsh on small stuff and still use too much travel. The other, like was said many times, is the loose rebound being mistaken for a compression problem. When in doubt try one range stiffer spring with 1- 2mm preload. This has worked out to be the best fork I have ever ridden in my terrain, and would not want a Sachs fork equipped bike for this reason.

I had a Sachs fork apart and didn't really see much of a difference in design, it looked like a Marz clone.
Except for the cart rod stopper...it looked like a peened on unit where the marz uses a split nut.
I don't see why they can't be valved to be every bit as good as the Marz???

I agree with what you said about the spring rate...IMHO...having the proper spring rate is a must, the first thing to change before any valving is addressed.

 

[Klausen]

Take into consideration what type of terrain I ride...like I said it's like nothing

OK I undersatnd, may be you can give me some support.
My LS Comp is still to soft and my HS Comp is still to stiff.
What can I do.
The air gap and spring is OK.

 

[moto9]

OK I undersatnd, may be you can give me some support.
My LS Comp is still to soft and my HS Comp is still to stiff.
What can I do.
The air gap and spring is OK.

When you say the LSC is too soft, in what situation(s) are you talking about...can you be more descriptive.

For me it was tricky to find a balance between to fork being too soft
(blowing thru the stroke too fast and too deep) and being to harsh.
I already knew I had to vastly stiffen up the rebound circuit because of the stiffer springs...and even stock it felt too light.
I could feel the fork absorb the bump ok but then I could feel the bars kick back too quickly.

I think the balance is found in the MV, enough float to blow open to take the hit, but still not blow too far into the stroke.
I used a 10 face shim so it could open quickly for the smaller high speed stuff.
I also have 10 bleed shim on the BV but I limited it's travel, so that it only flow a slight amount of oil...my goal was to soften the HS enough but not too much.
It took several tries to get the fork working how I wanted it.

 

[Klausen]

When you say the LSC is too soft, in what situation(s) are you talking about...can you be more descriptive.

I talking about long bumps, deep sand and corners. The fork feels a little bit to deep in the travel.

For me it was tricky to find a balance between to fork being too soft
(blowing thru the stroke too fast and too deep) and being to harsh.
I already knew I had to vastly stiffen up the rebound circuit because of the stiffer springs...and even stock it felt too light.
I could feel the fork absorb the bump ok but then I could feel the bars kick back too quickly.

The RB is stiffen up I think so.
from

21 x 0,1
19 x 0,1
17 x 0,1
15 x 0,1

to

22 x 0,1
22 x 0,1
19 x 0,1
19 x 0,1
17 x 0,1
17 x 0,1
15 x 0,1
13 x 0,1

The kick back from the bar isn't the problem.
When I jump and land first with rear wheel and then hard with the front it feels too harsh - I guess to much HS Comp.

I think the balance is found in the MV, enough float to blow open to take the hit, but still not blow too far into the stroke.

What can you recommend me in my case.
MV with 1mm float
15 x 0,1
15 x 0,2
15 x 0,3
15 x 0,3
18 x 0,1
22 x 0,15

I used a 10 face shim so it could open quickly for the smaller high speed stuff.

I will try this.

I also have 10 bleed shim on the BV

what do mean with 10 bleed shim - 11x0.1.

but I limited it's travel, so that it only flow a slight amount of oil...my goal was to soften the HS enough but not too much.

how do you limited the travel?