Shiver 45 internal measurements

[GMP]

Back off your MV float to 1.25 mm or so, or you could try a .10 face shim (I have not yet). I'm running close to what you have with even more float and its great, NO high speed harshness. For sand courses you do not need or want anymore bleed in the LS base valve, its loose enough already. Moto9's terrain and mine are much different that yours. A "slap" landing like you describe is also not the best way to judge performance.

 

[moto9]

I talking about long bumps, deep sand and corners. The fork feels a little bit to deep in the travel.



The RB is stiffen up I think so.
from

21 x 0,1
19 x 0,1
17 x 0,1
15 x 0,1

to

22 x 0,1
22 x 0,1
19 x 0,1
19 x 0,1
17 x 0,1
17 x 0,1
15 x 0,1
13 x 0,1

The kick back from the bar isn't the problem.
When I jump and land first with rear wheel and then hard with the front it feels too harsh - I guess to much HS Comp.



What can you recommend me in my case.
MV with 1mm float
15 x 0,1
15 x 0,2
15 x 0,3
15 x 0,3
18 x 0,1
22 x 0,15


I will try this.



what do mean with 10 bleed shim - 11x0.1.



how do you limited the travel?

I used a thin shim that barely closes off the ports, barley allowing free bleed. Next I ran a cross over shim, and a face shim over that, starting the stack from there.
So, there's minimal free bleed for the very tiny trail trash, then the shim can lift for the bigger trash, it's lift is determined by the crossover dia and thickness.
It can only lift the amount you set with the crossover and the shim above the crossover.
Basically a copy of the RT GR2 design (sorta speak)
There is more tune-ability.
I mean you can add more bleed, take away bleed
Use a thicker or a bigger diameter crossover shim.
Same for the shim that sits on top of the crossover shim, and so on...it can be a little mind boggling.
This set-up may be way off, All's I know is that I really like the action of the fork, the faster I go the better it works.

yes on the .10 shim.
I still think you may need a stiffer spring...forget about the numbers....if your fork is settling in the mid stroke thru most of your ride around the track, then you need to get the fork to ride higher and that is best done with a spring.
Most forks are vastly over damped and under sprung.
If you take two riders that weight the same, one is a pro level rider, one is a novice, who do you think would need a stiffer spring?
A pro tuner told me once that vet riders need a plusher valve set up because they hit everything in the track, that's why it's harder to tune for us old guys...meaning me!
Anyways, hope that helped.

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

Guys, what´s the fork SAG supposed to be? Mine´s kinda unbalanced now with the .48s 69mm race sag up front. Static is 26.

Need a stiffer rear spring as well 105 race and 20mm free sag with a 54N/mm spring. how much stiffer is a 56? Enough or do I need a 58...?

Anyway, havent had time to work on the bike much, mid/rebound is the same.

Tried a different BV setup though that I liked, more predictable feeling through the stroke no harsh hit on the HS when the stack entered the 3d stage on the "stockish" shimstack. No mx on this though. I think a little freebleed would be good and more LS.

22*.1
22
11*.2
20*.1
19
17
15
11.2

 

[Klausen]

Hi Moto9,

please can you explain your work a little bit more for me.
I'm a greenhorn in suspension tuning and technical english.

I used a thin shim that barely closes off the ports, barley allowing free bleed. Next I ran a cross over shim, and a face shim over that, starting the stack from there.
So, there's minimal free bleed for the very tiny trail trash, then the shim can lift for the bigger trash, it's lift is determined by the crossover dia and thickness.

I try to understand what you wrote.
I guess you mean the BV?
To barely close off the ports you use 22x0.1?
Crossover 11x0.25 for examble when I wan't it softer for bigger trashs.
Face shim 22x0.1?
and then the stack

Basically a copy of the RT GR2 design (sorta speak)

what means this RT GR2 - sorry

now I use this BV
for more LS and less HS I go to this (like right beside)
When I use a smaller diameter for the first shim I think I got less LS.

22 x 0,1
11 x 0,2 -> 13 x 0.25
22 x 0,1 -> 20 x 0.1
22 x 0,1
21 x 0,1
19 x 0,1
17 x 0,1
15 x 0,1
14 x 0,15
13 x 0,15
11 x 0,1
11 x 0,2

How can I take away bleed when I use a 22 x 0.1 shim?

I still think you may need a stiffer spring...forget about the numbers....if your fork is settling in the mid stroke thru most of your ride around the track, then you need to get the fork to ride higher and that is best done with a spring.

I also have heard that you can go easy faster with stiffer springs.
Then the fork works higher in the stroke - right?
But this isn't so easy to handle when go slower. Why?

Before I revalve my Shiver 45 - I ride 5.0N/mm Springs (85kg wo. wear).
It felt no the good but I think this depends on the weak stock rebound damping before.

What I have to do else when I change the springs from 4.5 to 5.0 - stiffen up the rebound stack?

may be you can can give me more support

 

[moto9]

Hi Moto9,

please can you explain your work a little bit more for me.
I'm a greenhorn in suspension tuning and technical english.



I try to understand what you wrote.
I guess you mean the BV?
To barely close off the ports you use 22x0.1?
Crossover 11x0.25 for examble when I wan't it softer for bigger trashs.
Face shim 22x0.1?
and then the stack

Yes the BV, if your first shim off the piston is smaller than than the outer edges of the port...meaning oil can free flow with out moving that shim...it's called a bleed shim. Allowing the oil to free bleed,
unrestricted. The next shim you use will determine how soft or stiff you want the bleed shim to be. Thicker / bigger diameter shim = less lift and a stiffer set up....this also goes for the bleed shim. thiner / smaller diameter shim= more lift and a softer set-up.

what means this RT GR2 - sorry Race tech, don't worry about it

now I use this BV
for more LS and less HS I go to this (like right beside)
When I use a smaller diameter for the first shim I think I got less LS.
Yes, you will get less LS that's the reason I went with a stiffer spring, it's a very tricky thin line between the fork blowing thru the stroke too much and, not blowing thru enough. That's why I was in my fork so many times...trying to balance for what I rider...and that's what you need to do...find that balance.

22 x 0,1
11 x 0,2 -> 13 x 0.25
22 x 0,1 -> 20 x 0.1
22 x 0,1
21 x 0,1
19 x 0,1
17 x 0,1
15 x 0,1
14 x 0,15
13 x 0,15
11 x 0,1
11 x 0,2

How can I take away bleed when I use a 22 x 0.1 shim?
I'm not sure what you mean by take away bleed?
If the first shim you use covers the piston ports completely then it's not allowing any free bleed...and therefore not a bleed shim



I also have heard that you can go easy faster with stiffer springs.
Then the fork works higher in the stroke - right?
But this isn't so easy to handle when go slower. Why?
I disagree, Going slower for me is no problem, my fork does blow thru the stroke..but only to a point, so it soaks up everything just fine

Before I revalve my Shiver 45 - I ride 5.0N/mm Springs (85kg wo. wear).
It felt no the good but I think this depends on the weak stock rebound damping before.
Ya, Like I said I really had the stiffen up the rebound a lot.

What I have to do else when I change the springs from 4.5 to 5.0 - stiffen up the rebound stack?

may be you can can give me more support

I can't give you any numbers until I get back in my fork again which won't be for another month or two, But I don't think my set-up will work for you since you do MX as well...Start reading more uspensions forms...so that you can understand more....that's how I gained what I know.

 

[Keg]

I just re-valved my 03 Shivers for my 110kg butt with 0.45kg/mm springs.
Comp stack is now (with all 0.1mm shims): 22,22,12,22,20,20,19,17,14,12,11,10

Haven't ridden it though. I expect it to be firm but consistent.

 

[Klausen]

Hi Moto9,

please can you explain your work a little bit more for me.
I'm a greenhorn in suspension tuning and technical english.

I try to understand what you wrote.
I guess you mean the BV?
To barely close off the ports you use 22x0.1?
Crossover 11x0.25 for examble when I wan't it softer for bigger trashs.
Face shim 22x0.1? and then the stack
Yes the BV, if your first shim off the piston is smaller than than the outer edges of the port...meaning oil can free flow with out moving that shim...it's called a bleed shim. Allowing the oil to free bleed,unrestricted. The next shim you use will determine how soft or stiff you want the bleed shim to be. Thicker / bigger diameter shim = less lift and a stiffer set up....this also goes for the bleed shim. thiner / smaller diameter shim= more lift and a softer set-up.

this is a good explanation,
with a recommended bleedshim I got more bleed but I don't wan't it
I will try a bigger/thicker crossover shim, may be helps this

what means this RT GR2 - sorry Race tech, don't worry about it

now I use this BV
for more LS and less HS I go to this (like right beside)
When I use a smaller diameter for the first shim I think I got less LS.
Yes, you will get less LS that's the reason I went with a stiffer spring, it's a very tricky thin line between the fork blowing thru the stroke too much and, not blowing thru enough. That's why I was in my fork so many times...trying to balance for what I rider...and that's what you need to do...find that balance.
OK

22 x 0,1
11 x 0,2 -> 13 x 0.25
22 x 0,1 -> 20 x 0.1
22 x 0,1
21 x 0,1
19 x 0,1
17 x 0,1
15 x 0,1
14 x 0,15
13 x 0,15
11 x 0,1
11 x 0,2

How can I take away bleed when I use a 22 x 0.1 shim?
I'm not sure what you mean by take away bleed?
If the first shim you use covers the piston ports completely then it's not allowing any free bleed...and therefore not a bleed shim
OK

I also have heard that you can go easy faster with stiffer springs.
Then the fork works higher in the stroke - right?
But this isn't so easy to handle when go slower. Why?
I disagree, Going slower for me is no problem, my fork does blow thru the stroke..but only to a point, so it soaks up everything just fine


Before I revalve my Shiver 45 - I ride 5.0N/mm Springs (85kg wo. wear).
It felt no the good but I think this depends on the weak stock rebound damping before.
Ya, Like I said I really had the stiffen up the rebound a lot.

What I have to do else when I change the springs from 4.5 to 5.0 - stiffen up the rebound stack?
Any idea?

may be you can can give me more support

I can't give you any numbers until I get back in my fork again which won't be for another month or two, But I don't think my set-up will work for you since you do MX as well...Start reading more uspensions forms...so that you can understand more....that's how I gained what I know.

OK I will read much more. But the Shiver 45 isn't so popular in world of offroad bikes.

 

[moto9]

OK I will read much more. But the Shiver 45 isn't so popular in world of offroad bikes.

I will agree it's not the best fork on the market...you might consider getting an expert to re-valve your suspension, preferably someone in your neighborhood and knows what their doing.
Or, send them to Les at LTR...my friend had his suspension don by Les and was really happy.
BTY he used a plastic gun case to ship them.