spring affects on turning.....

dank

New member
would having two different springs in my forks have adverse affects on function and turning? it seems i have a much heavier spring in on fork than the other, and i dont notice it while going slow, but when going faster (fourth-fifth gear on fire road) it seems like the bike is unwilling to turn, and has put me in the ditch on multiple occasions (nothing broken or injured except my ego for the guys behind me..) the bike is set up for 180lbs aggressive rider, whereas im a 165 novice trail rider, so i dont know if that has anything to do with it, but it just doesnt feel right sometimes, like it doesnt want to turn for me.
 
would having two different springs in my forks have adverse affects on function and turning? it seems i have a much heavier spring in on fork than the other, and i dont notice it while going slow, but when going faster (fourth-fifth gear on fire road) it seems like the bike is unwilling to turn, and has put me in the ditch on multiple occasions (nothing broken or injured except my ego for the guys behind me..) the bike is set up for 180lbs aggressive rider, whereas im a 165 novice trail rider, so i dont know if that has anything to do with it, but it just doesnt feel right sometimes, like it doesnt want to turn for me.

You would think it so, however, KYB's new S.F.F.(fork) only has one large spring in one fork leg.
Cannondale's "Lefty"only has one fork leg all together and some forks have rebound in one leg and compression in the other.
So, with out knowing more it's hard to say in your situation.
Best way to test would be to put both stock springs back in the forks and re-test the same ride conditions to see if there's a noticeable difference.
 
Sounds like the heavy spring only(it would be putting some preload on the smaller spring only) is working at the top of the stroke while slow riding & the second spring coming into play as well, as you hit corners harder.This would cause the stroke to stiffen up rapidly & hold it up too high in the corner.Just my theory,what you guys reckon?
 
I have a Husky that I run two different springs in and it works well for me. Stock springs were too soft and the next step up stiffer was too harsh. So I split the difference and it's good.

Sounds to me your biggest issue is the front end is set up too firm for you. The original owner weighed more and was more aggressive. If you have he other soft spring, I would put it back in and see how things are.
 
Remember to set the rear up for your weight as well - it's vitally important for the front and back to work in harmony. What seems like a front end problem can often be caused by rear end set up.
 
springs were in when i bought her. from talking to les at ltr my rear spring (5.2) is a touch on the heavy side but should work, my sag numbers come out to 90ish race sag and 40ish static sag (i had it at 105 and 50, but it turned like junk and stiffening it up helped with handling significantly.) so i know the rear spring isnt ideal, but then again neither is the front. would softening up the compression and rebound help perhaps? mind you it works just fine going slow, its just at higher speeds, it feels like it doesnt want to take to a turn, no matter how hard i try to lean and turn the bars it just doesnt seem to want to turn.
 
Have you played around with lifting your forks through triple clamps?
 
springs were in when i bought her. from talking to les at ltr my rear spring (5.2) is a touch on the heavy side but should work, my sag numbers come out to 90ish race sag and 40ish static sag (i had it at 105 and 50, but it turned like junk and stiffening it up helped with handling significantly.) so i know the rear spring isnt ideal, but then again neither is the front. would softening up the compression and rebound help perhaps? mind you it works just fine going slow, its just at higher speeds, it feels like it doesnt want to take to a turn, no matter how hard i try to lean and turn the bars it just doesnt seem to want to turn.

hey dank.. i have a spare 4.8 spring if that is what les thinks you need...
too light for my lard a***
 
les said a 5.0 in the back and a pair of 4.0s in the front would work very well. forks are lifted 5mm in the forks, i cant go higher because my clickers will hit my bars. some day in the far away future i am going to send my forks and shock to les and have him do the works on them, but until then ill probably just re-spring when i find the money and work with that.
 
les said a 5.0 in the back and a pair of 4.0s in the front would work very well. forks are lifted 5mm in the forks, i cant go higher because my clickers will hit my bars. some day in the far away future i am going to send my forks and shock to les and have him do the works on them, but until then ill probably just re-spring when i find the money and work with that.

my clickers are right on my bars too... if you change your mind, let me know.
it is not too hard to change out...
jay
 
i may do some more playing with the clickers and see if that helps any. but that wont be till next spring =( going to college and theres nowhere to ride up there. so the bike gets winterized and put in the garage until i come home. makes me sad.
 
i may do some more playing with the clickers and see if that helps any. but that wont be till next spring =( going to college and theres nowhere to ride up there. so the bike gets winterized and put in the garage until i come home. makes me sad.

i hear ya... it is riding time here and i am in a ortho boot.... broken ankle....so all my stuff is put up too....
 
ill think about it. the bike is getting put away anyhow, as im going to college in two days.='( im gunna miss her. first chance i get, snow or not, im riding her again though. so i will see what happens next spring and see if i want to change things or not. ill keep that in mind though. thanks
 
I have a theory on your turning difficulty. It has nothing to do with suspension. If you think about the rotating mass of your wheels/tires(tyres), plus the rotating mass of your engine, you've got a big gyroscope going on. If you were to leap off the back of the bike, it will go for an amazing distance very straight with no help from you at all (yup, done it :o ).
Add in the poor traction and unpredictability of gravel, and you have a difficult situation. It seems elementary, but really, gravel road riding is dangerous, and not exactly easy. It's best to do your fast riding on dirt. Turning is much more predictable. So this begs the question. Can you turn fine on dirt?
 
i can turn just fine going slow. until we got the oats off the field i have not had a place with dirt to turn at high speed on, and i have not had time to ride since we got oats off. i leave on friday for school, so i will not have a chance again until next spring at least. and it seemed like more of a speed thing than anything. because it the mid of 4th gear it would round a corner just fine, but mid of 5th, and it would feel like it didnt want to turn. next spring im going to get proper springs for my weight, and see if that helps. i dont think its so much the different springs, as the springs in front dont balance with the spring in back. thanks for the replys guys. if you think of anything else please post it. it is much appreciated.
 
You never said what rate your fork springs were, or what the preload is set at. Stiff springs and/or too much preload is the main problem. Two different rate springs is no problem, I have done this as well. Les is right, you should run 5.0/.40 for starters, with no more than 5mm preload.
 
i did not say because i do not know. when i had them resealed and the oil changed, he pulled them out, but couldnt find markings as to what they were, but i would suspect a 4.2 and a 4.5, because the bike was set up for a 180lb aggressive rider. the rear spring is a 5.2 with around 16mm of preload, anything below around 14mm and the bike handled like poo. i assume that is because the front and back are unbalanced. when money comes my way again i will be purchasing proper springs and having them installed when i have the fork seals replaced.
 
would having two different springs in my forks have adverse affects on function and turning? it seems i have a much heavier spring in on fork than the other, and i dont notice it while going slow, but when going faster (fourth-fifth gear on fire road) it seems like the bike is unwilling to turn, and has put me in the ditch on multiple occasions (nothing broken or injured except my ego for the guys behind me..) the bike is set up for 180lbs aggressive rider, whereas im a 165 novice trail rider, so i dont know if that has anything to do with it, but it just doesnt feel right sometimes, like it doesnt want to turn for me.

Even if you really have 2 different spring rates in the fork, I sincerely doubt it would make any difference in the bike's ability to turn. After 28 years of offroad racing and 5 years with superbikes, I would have to try that to believe it. Hmm, think I will try that this weekend on the EC 300. If the bike is unwilling to turn, here are some things to try, and you will notice a difference in the handling so do not go WFO out of the gate. These adjustments will alter the trail which will affect whether the bike understeers or oversteers. Many people misinterpret what the bike is trying to tell them and adjust incorrectly so let's get a baseline.

1. You mention that you have the fork tubes raised 5mm in the triple clamps so start by dropping them in the clamps 4mm leaving 1mm exposed above the top of the clamp. This will lengthen the trail. If you are reading what the bike is telling you, then this should make the bike more stable at speed and turn slower. Is this what happened?

2. Leaving the fork legs set as they now are, adjust the rear preload so that you have 35mm of static sag (this is the sag on my GG). By decreasing the static sag, we have shortened the trail. The bike should be less stable at speed, but should turn more quickly and easily. Is this what happened?

3. If #2 helped the bike turn more easily, then raise the fork legs in the clamps 2mm so that you now have them raised a total of 3mm above the top of the clamp. This will shorten the trail even more and should make the bike even less stable at speed, but turn more easily. Even go to the 5mm and try this. If the trail gets too short, the bike will try to oversteer. When this happens, the front end will push or try to slide. If this occurs, you have gone too far.

As a 190lb. aggressive rider, here are the springs I run in my '07 EC300. For slow speed technical (tight single track), .42 front and 5.2 rear. The front is softer and gives great feel in the wet. For higher speed riding, .45 front and 5.2 rear. Fortunately, the linkage rear suspension is more forgiving than the PDF on a KTM. I have both so I am not bashing any KTM riders who might be reading; just the facts.

And then you have the effects of compression/rebound. Geez, that is a book unto itself. Hope this helps. Oh, and if you are have had multiple incidents with the ditch; slow down. You may be "riding over your head". Sometimes the ego can be the hardest thing to adjust. Been there; and have the broken bones and scars to prove it.
 
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