Stumped, 2013 has gotten kind of spooky...

[rgranger]

when I first got the bike, I thought that it was a big improvement from the 2011. I had the PFS about 1/2 turn from full out and it seemed to handle pretty well. it started getting pretty skittish a few rides ago. I could be riding down hardpack and the wheel would just turn and skitter (like a chopper). I check the rear sag (static) and it was 45, firmed it up to 25 and it seems better, but just a bit. I turned in the PFS because it was a little mushy (.50's). Should I drop the preload clip on the front. What it seems to do on hard is to first push and then tuck. On the roads you can't go around a turn without the front twitching like you are hitting ice. Not confidence inspiring. softening compression and firming rebound seemed to help the front in the roots, it just never feels planted like the 11. Have to get a buddy over to recheck the rider sag, my shoulder is not completely gone, so it is tough to balance and do all this one handed

 

[twowheels]

when I first got the bike, I thought that it was a big improvement from the 2011. I had the PFS about 1/2 turn from full out and it seemed to handle pretty well. it started getting pretty skittish a few rides ago. I could be riding down hardpack and the wheel would just turn and skitter (like a chopper). I check the rear sag (static) and it was 45, firmed it up to 25 and it seems better, but just a bit. I turned in the PFS because it was a little mushy (.50's). Should I drop the preload clip on the front. What it seems to do on hard is to first push and then tuck. On the roads you can't go around a turn without the front twitching like you are hitting ice. Not confidence inspiring. softening compression and firming rebound seemed to help the front in the roots, it just never feels planted like the 11. Have to get a buddy over to recheck the rider sag, my shoulder is not completely gone, so it is tough to balance and do all this one handed

You might want to have your suspension guy () check the forks. The Marzocchi's are really good and very consistent as long as everything inside is bolted down the way it should be.

The change you described suggests something is amiss hardware-wise. Provided your race sag was correct before, your sag change on the rear may actually have exacerbated the problem.

 

[rgranger]

Thinking back, I did change the PFS from .5 to 1.75 as the dealer suggested. This also affects spring preload? If so, do I need any special tools to adjust the c-clips and drop the pre-load down one. I have never been in dual chamber forks. I have shoulder surgery in about 5 weeks, I really don't want to start one of my typical 4 week projects is it just opening the top, undoing the bottom (can a impact still be used on that or are we talking "special tool"). I will try backing the PFS out again and see if that helps, but I also think that it was getting a bit mushy which is why i dialed it in.

 

[GMP]

Yes, PFP has a direct affect on overall preload, and it is the effect that you notice most. The problem with the main spring preload is that it is only adjustable in 5mm increments. What I did that seems to work very well is make up some .5mm shims for a precise preload adjusdtment. Now I can run my main spring preload @ 1 - 2mm, and the PFP is much more useful. I change the spring perch position by 5mm for 0 preload, and add shims to adjust. A heavier spring with this light preload and 0 - 1 turn on the PFP is awesome in the rocks, sucks up the small stuff completey and firms up nice for the bigger hits. Add another turn or so for sand and/or whoops. As it comes the PFP has a very large range of adjustment but because of the overall preload effect getting too high it is not very useful. Even at 0 turns on the PFP, the cartridge spring is still preloaded @ 7mm, so there is still a lot more pressure in the cartridge than a KYB fork. This could be your problem especially if you went with heavier springs, and have them preloaded to 5mm+.

 

[rgranger]

Glenn, would you know if the stock setting, I doubt they changed it when adding the stiffer spring, is in the "least" preload setting.

Steve suggested putting everything back, and I may try that, but I think for some reason, it must be with the front forks. It is like I am stuck between being mushy and chopper bob where the front just skitters. adding more preload would make it ride higher and could do that? Steve was also the 2nd to suggest maybe the new scott's damper may be futzing something up.

I have about 4 weeks until I get my right rotator cuff fixed, don't want to start a 6 week project

 

[GMP]

I don't know exactly what was done to your bike, as far as springs, valving and such, and by whom. I would guess though, that with the heavier springs, you don't need as much preload, and too much PFP may be taking you over the edge. Stock preload with stock springs is 5mm. Mushy is a term I never associated with these forks, even with the stock valving full of bleed shims. Could also be a cartridge bleed or rebound problem. If its rebounding too fast that would do it too, as its standing up once you get off the brake. Air in the cartridge will foul everything up. Also, 45mm to 25mm is a radical change in free sag to make! Like Steve said I think you need to back up and get everything in tha ballpark. Rear sag around 105mm - 110mm with the shock spring preload < 10mm and free sag around 35mm or so is about right for the correct spring.

 

[rgranger]

Thanks Glenn.
Hall's added some rebound to the rear shock as I went to a 6.0. the fronts are now 5.0, so they are much stiffer than stock. I am going to try and put things back to where they were from my first rides. If my ego has recovered from this past weekend, I will post back with results from this coming ride.

I had added rear preload as I thought that the front not planting may be the anti-stinkbug thing (chopper effect). It really didn't make much of a difference - it did make it a lot taller
Rob

 

[GMP]

The fork needs rebound added more than the shock, even with stock 4.2s its too light. Did they do that? Did this all start after the suspension work?

 

[rgranger]

No, they just did the shock, not the front. That would splain things.
The forks were don't before delivery, I knew that was going to be an issue. I didn't know that the 48's were also weak on rebound - Well, I guess I will ride the '11 for the next few weeks and get the 13 stuff sent off. Thanks for clearing that up!! I will put things back.

 

[GMP]

Holy crap how could you ride that thing? No wonder it won't stick and turn! I can't beleive they actually sent it out the door like that.

 

[rgranger]

Hey, you are at least making me feel better about my riding
I had dialed in a lot of rebound at one time, but got to thinking, that can't be right...

 

[GMP]

I added a fair amount of stack and removed the bleed shim and I'm right in the middle @ 10 clicks out for a good feel with .46 springs.

 

[rgranger]

Ok, front set back to where it was with about 40mm of rider sag. PFS .5 turn in, which is where I started brand new.

Waiting on a new rear 48 sprocket for the back, finding that this '13 has more pull than the '09 KTM and the '11GG. Once I get that on I will set the static sag back at around 40.

Thanks

 

[rgranger]

rear: 40/110 static/rider
front: 40 static.
PFP: backed all the way out and .5 turns in, where i had it set for break-in.
hope to test tomorrow.