Tight muddy corners - sliding the back

[stay_upright]

A professional racer recommended coming into the corner, lock the rear and part way round get on the gas to continue the slide - i.e. rear wheel steering. An interesting point he made is the front wheel has a lot less to do and while the rear sliding is fine sliding the front puts you on the floor - I never thought of it like that.

We did a few practices and I did quite well (in our group) I would say as my balance is quite good at this sort of feet up braking / power on stuff. I'd never really considered it for races though - more for show, I guess I'll have to get practicing! There is a race near me - next spring now which is purely tight woods corners and I always wondered why I was slow!

 

[Rickster]

I have been practicing this is single track and find it difficult, but on the odd occasion when I pull it off it's a great feeling. Agood drill in an open area is to get on the gas in 1st or 2nd, lock it up, slide 90 degrees standing with feet on the pegs then gas again over and over again.

 

[fury1]

thats the best way to describe my technique on a trials tire,200 or 300 the sliding technique works great threading through the tight twisting corners that are loaded with mud,allows you to keep the front end pointing where you want to go while the rear slides you into your corner,allows you to have a nice straight line coming out

 

[GMP]

+1

Also allows you to keep the bike more vertical, which is important with a trials tire as they let go fast if leaned too hard with no berm.

 

[Skidad]

In the Shane Watts riding class I took he pretty much poo pooed the idea of the brake slide for most situations. His views were 9 out of 10 times you're not gonna get it right and spend allot of excess energy correcting either the under or over slide. In racing conditions it's super hard to do it consistently where every corner is different.

Highly recommend his class by the way. Very informative and a ton of fun for 2 days. And oh what a treat it is to watch him ride. He makes everything look soooooo easy.

 

[darren]

Pause for thought.

Im no expert but i treat every corner differently.

What about this. Braking on aproach to the corner change down a gear. Turn the front wheel sharp into the corner whilst whacking the throttle on in turn bringing the rear wheel around whilst counter balancing using body weight and throttle control???

Just a thought.

 

[ramcclure200]

I'm no expert but all the mud riding i've done over the years I prefer the brake sliding in sand conditions but all mud is different and most is unpredictable you may be able to get the rear to snap back in line but its a gamble because if it doesn't snap back in time you can break something (bike, body, etc.).
If you know your muds then with the right kind I beleive in the sliding technique BUT you better know your mud.
I would recommend practice in sandy slippery trails to get used to the feeling (of your rear end trying to pass you) and master your brake, throttle crontrol then go find a large open flat (as possible) space with that super slippery clay like mud and start playing. I'm talking about that mud thats like standing on an ice cube.
That being said you will see that its real hard to know where the limit of traction is and how easy it would be to get it wrong and cost you time and possabily the race.

Ron
2004 ECDE200

 

[Loosenut]

Brake slide to power slide. I do this alot. When it's dry, slick and dusty, the bike is gonna slide unless you ride sedate. I find this technique very usefull, but you gotta practice all the time because conditions change and you gotta be able to adjust. I can generally do feet up brake slides to about 75 degrees and then finish up with the clutch and throttle. Every so often I lowside, but I'm going so slow by the time the bike goes down, I am ready and I pick it right up and continue on.

 

[lvermey]

What works best for me is putting most of my weight on the front end. Do my braking before the corner, and then smoothly accelerate threw the corner. I feel being smooth is the key. You can go can change your braking and how fast you go, as you get a feel for how slippery the mud is in the area your at.

 

[skid jackson]

excuse the soap box rant but ...
I belong to a club that puts on several large rides a year and see the time and effort they put into trail work and landowner relations ..

Keep in mind that the brake slide/rear steering technique can raise hell with trail erosion. On a track/ competion event sure, dedicated ohrv area umm ... maybe .. someone still has to fix that trail. On a recreational ride put on by a club on land they don't get to use every day ... ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! If a landowner goes out and sees what 200 brake sliding, throttle twisty dirtbikes have done to his land .... chances are he won't be inviting them back! I've ridden behind some guys that are one man trail wrecking machines. Just something to think about when you are roosting merrily along.
That's someones dearly loved personal possesion flying out from under your back tire

 

[kendunn]

A professional racer recommended coming into the corner, lock the rear and part way round get on the gas to continue the slide - i.e. rear wheel steering. An interesting point he made is the front wheel has a lot less to do and while the rear sliding is fine sliding the front puts you on the floor - I never thought of it like that.

We did a few practices and I did quite well (in our group) I would say as my balance is quite good at this sort of feet up braking / power on stuff. I'd never really considered it for races though - more for show, I guess I'll have to get practicing! There is a race near me - next spring now which is purely tight woods corners and I always wondered why I was slow!

One thing about it, I have never been on a bike that slides through a turn better than a GG!!! One of the things I love about it.

 

[Loosenut]

+1 I agree that Gasser slide great.

 

[Tim H]

>Loosenut revealed:

>Brake slide to power slide. I do this alot.

I'll vouch for that, all right. He does this a LOT.

>When it's dry, slick and dusty, the bike is gonna slide unless you
>ride sedate.

How would you know that, Mike? Did you read it in a book or something? "Sedate" is NOT a word that comes up often when discussing your riding tyle.

>I find this technique very usefull, but you gotta practice all the time
>because conditions change and you gotta be able to adjust.

Plus, it gives you an excuse to do it even more!

>I can generally do feet up brake slides to about 75 degrees and then
>finish up with the clutch and throttle. Every so often I lowside, but
>I'm going so slow by the time the bike goes down, I am ready and I
>pick it right up and continue on.
But some of the near-misses are EPIC, eh Mike?
Seriously, if any of y'all have a chance to ride with our esteemed colleague Loosenut, jump on it. He's about as fun to ride with as anyone I've ever turned a wheel with. The challenge is staying close enough to enjoy the show.

Tim H

 

[darren]

Just an experience i thought i would share with you.
At the weekend I was out on a local field where i can practice. After about an hour my rear brake pedal broke on me (cheap diecast)

I thought about packing up. Instead i thought no i read somewhere or watched a video where Shane Watts had been riding and he had no brakes front or rear but was still fast.
Anyway I carryed on riding, Normally i would brake with both front and rear up on the pegs and just as i hit the apex of the corner i drop down onto the front of my bike let of the front brake, put more effort on the rear to slide into the corner then holding the rear brake and accelerating controling with the rear brake, when almost clear of the corner let the brake off and power away.

As i had no rear brake i approached differently. Up on the pegs braking with just the front, again dropping down onto the front of the bike but keeping the front brake on albeit less force, then slip clutch squirt of power to flick the bike around still keeping some force on the front brake.

I did not feel 100 percent confident doing this at first but after a few laps it felt quite good and still fast. I dont think it was "as" fast but it was good practice especially when the front suddenly locks up and you need to let off and back on. Also working out how much power to give it when trying to flick the rear around.

May be worth trying sometime It is suprising how much force you can put on the front wheel before it breaks traction.

 

[gasgasman]

Amen Skid.
I hate it when people roost the top of whoops.

Anyway. I rarely brake slide, a sliding tire has less braking potential than one that is spinning slowly.

 

[bowhunter007]

Interesting commentaries on braking. I rarely use my rear brakes for anything but super steep descents. Call me crazy! or stupid. I use the front brake to plant the front going into a tight turn, sometimes unloading the rear allowing the rear tire to keep turning, as I shift my body allowing the tail end to effectively slide around, and roll on the gas leaving the turn. All the while feathering the clutch, to minimize overspin. Whether my technique is wrong...I don't know. It works well for me. I do know, most of the riders I see in the woods don't utilize their front brakes enough.

 

[3beejay3]

If you watch the pros- they've done all (or almost all of) their braking before they enter the corner.
Then they use whatever conditions are in the corner to accelerate thru it-
If there's a rut, or berm, they lean into it, or blast off of it . If it's flat, they powerslide around the corner. Sometimes they use the base of a big tree or rock as a berm. It follows that old saying about corners- slow in, fast out.
The faster you exit the corner, the faster your straightaway speed will be. 80-90% of time is made up in corners.
They key is getting good enough to really use what's there. Fast MX riders have these innate skills. If they get comfortable with the trees & tight spaces, they become very fast woods riders.

 

[singletracker]

I took a riding class with Jeff Fredette, Mr ISDE, he holds the record for the most consecutive ISDE medals. I think he has around 28 straight medals now, and never a DNF. He still overalls the local enduros around here, and once again won the Dist. 17 AA enduro championship last year. Did I mention that he is in his mid 50's?

Anyway, he strongly emphasized to never brake slide. Instead he constantly pushes line choice, and avoiding the brake slide. There were several corners that I used to brake slide around, but I found that I can now come at them at a slightly different angle and maneuver the corner faster and with less energy than when I used to brake slide. I only brake slide now in an emergency situation or when I mess up. His class helped me tremendously by the way. I've also taken the Dirtwise class with Shane Watts, and I learned a lot from him also.

 

[Jakobi]

Neither here nor there. It all depends on what you call a brake slide. I think alot of us are picturing it to be someone locked up and crossed up into every turn before roosting on out.

Its definately not something I do intentionally, but as the pace increases and particularly in poor conditions, as the traction decreases its only expected that the bike will start to move around more, both under brakes and under power.

The key to riding faster longer is to ride smooth. Try and keep both wheels turning. Wheel spin is counter productive to moving forwards, locking a brake is counter productive to slowing down. Both look spectacular when put together, but provide no real benefits. If its that loose and slimey out that the bike will start to move under brakes then yeah you need to stay smooth and let the bike slide. Let it set you up for the corner and then smoothly power back up. I wouldn't call this intentionally brake sliding a corner though. Just riding the conditions.

 

[singletracker]

This winter when it was too slick to really charge the corners I would spend time practicing sliding the rear on acceleration in an open field. I can't say I'm an expert at it or anything, but I managed my first full doughnut while standing this winter on mud and grass. It felt pretty cool to keep the rear spinning and sliding while standing. I'm hoping this translates well to the trails when the rear slides out at times. I prefer to slide the rear end under acceleration when necessary, but I can't say that it always works out like I plan it.