twitchy steering behaviour 2015 EC200

H

hannesd

New member
HI,
i just got back to the gasser family with a 2015 ec200, having owened an older ec300 a few years back.

so my question is, can a bike be rather unstable at higher speeds due to too little sag and/or lesser quality tires?
i got the bike with a fresh set of tires of the reputable brand "RAZORBACK" feral 2 type. these feel as very soft studded tires, never touched such soft tires...
the tires do have some new BIB mousses mounted.
there's also a terrible imbalance in the rear wheel.
in the stand and on the street, from 50-60km/h and more the wheel starts to occilate up and down :-/
i'll take the tire off and inspect how heavy the tireclamp weighs.

on testride the bike felt very high in the back, after measuring, it only had about 75mm of race sag instead of the recommended +-105mm.
i set it at 95mm now and still feels less stable then i'd like.
will the extra 10mm make a noticeable difference in stability?

the bike is ok to ride, just not that confidence inspiring +60-70 km/h (over uneven surfaces)

curious for your toughts :rolleyes:

cheers, Hannes.
 
95mm sag is not enough, adjust it to 110 dynamic and see if you can be inside the range of 30 to 35mm static. Rear low = more stability, lazier steering.

The rim lock is indeed very heavy hence the wheels oscillate at higher speed and produce a humming noise. That's pretty common and most noticable on tarmac or public roads.

If the bike feels twitchy it can be the tires but I doubt it. For testing you can increase tire pressure front and rear to 1.1 bar and see if that changes anything. Another reason could be a defective shock or if the clickers are set incorrectly....
 
ok, i'll increase the race sag.
tire pressure can't be altered since i have bib mouses.
the humming noise, i am familiar with,in my case this is just shaking the whole bike :rolleyes:
clickers are set per manual.
 
set the sag and it's all good now. the nervous steering is gone, with only 10mm more sag.
about the imbalance, there's about 300 grams of imbalance :eek:
i managed to temporarily fix some 200 grams counterweights to the spokes and that too is ok now.
it is very weird to have such a big weight difference though.
i'm guessing a big heavy rim lock along with the cheapest tires...:o
i'll just wear them out and then replace them with some quality ones.
 
hannesd said:
set the sag and it's all good now. the nervous steering is gone, with only 10mm more sag.
about the imbalance, there's about 300 grams of imbalance :eek:
i managed to temporarily fix some 200 grams counterweights to the spokes and that too is ok now.
it is very weird to have such a big weight difference though.
i'm guessing a big heavy rim lock along with the cheapest tires...:o
i'll just wear them out and then replace them with some quality ones.
Click to expand...

I always balance the tires on my dirt bikes as well as the dual sport bikes.

Go to a street bike shop and buy an assortment of spoke weights like they use on Harley spoke wheels. Or, just drop off the wheel/tire assemblies and have them balance them for you.

Since you've set the rear sag correctly, why not check the front sag and make sure it's in the ballpark. Put a couple of electrical zip ties around the fork tubes up close to the seals. Take the bike off the stand and sit on the bike. Then put it back on the stand and measure the distance from the seals down to the zip tie. It should measure around 100 mm or 4 inches. It might not be perfect, but it'll be close.

RB
 
RBrider said:
I always balance the tires on my dirt bikes as well as the dual sport bikes.

Go to a street bike shop and buy an assortment of spoke weights like they use on Harley spoke wheels. Or, just drop off the wheel/tire assemblies and have them balance them for you.

Since you've set the rear sag correctly, why not check the front sag and make sure it's in the ballpark. Put a couple of electrical zip ties around the fork tubes up close to the seals. Take the bike off the stand and sit on the bike. Then put it back on the stand and measure the distance from the seals down to the zip tie. It should measure around 100 mm or 4 inches. It might not be perfect, but it'll be close.

RB
Click to expand...

I never balance my Gasgas' wheels. I don't go fast enough to notice any problems, even with mousses and traditionals rimlocks. On my most frequently used rims, I use T-Lock (an alternative to Tubliss), so there is no problem with imbalance there (apart from any imbalance from the tire itself).

On the issue of front sag, I always have an o-ring around one of the fork legs to keep an eye on the amount of travel I use. Dependinmg on the track, I tend to soften up the comression clicker to use most of the travel. I haven't measured the front sag in a while, but I seem to remember it being quite OK.
 
hannesd said:
set the sag and it's all good now. the nervous steering is gone, with only 10mm more sag.
about the imbalance, there's about 300 grams of imbalance :eek:
i managed to temporarily fix some 200 grams counterweights to the spokes and that too is ok now.
it is very weird to have such a big weight difference though.
i'm guessing a big heavy rim lock along with the cheapest tires...:o
i'll just wear them out and then replace them with some quality ones.
Click to expand...

Glad you solved the main issue. Don't underestimate that 10mm is quite a lot.
Even if others will have a different opinion I would not change the forks sag (by using different springs and/or spacers) if it works good now.
9 out of 10 suspension problems come from the rear except a rider is far too heavy/light for the springs.

I had a huge imbalance shortly and I could not imagine what it was as I use good quality rim locks (still about 170 grams). Later I found out that the mousse was the case. Tried cheap Technomousse and it was the cause.

If you don't ride on public roads or a lot on tarmac balancing the wheels is nonsense in my opinion. From about 50 riders I know only one balances his wheels, but he is a dentist so I don't take him too serious :D

Considering what your nick name is, you are from Europe, right?
 
Doc Brown said:
Glad you solved the main issue. Don't underestimate that 10mm is quite a lot.
Even if others will have a different opinion I would not change the forks sag (by using different springs and/or spacers) if it works good now.
9 out of 10 suspension problems come from the rear except a rider is far too heavy/light for the springs.

I had a huge imbalance shortly and I could not imagine what it was as I use good quality rim locks (still about 170 grams). Later I found out that the mousse was the case. Tried cheap Technomousse and it was the cause.

If you don't ride on public roads or a lot on tarmac balancing the wheels is nonsense in my opinion. From about 50 riders I know only one balances his wheels, but he is a dentist so I don't take him too serious :D

Considering what your nick name is, you are from Europe, right?
Click to expand...


correct, i am from Belgium. Oh you're from the mountains of Austria :-D

if your mousse had imbalance, did you try spinning it 180 deg around to get the heavy side in the other side of the wheel,to get the heavy side of the mouse on the opposite side of the rim lock?
i still have about 100-150 grams of imbalance after my temp fix but it's ok now.
if this fix holds up till i wear this tire out, i'll try to balance my rim with rimlock and mousse ,without the tire mounted.
then get some better quality tires and see how to mount them after checking the imbalance on the new one.
 
masterbill said:
hello,

What size razorback tyres are you using ?
Click to expand...

80/100 R21 and 110/100 R18 not that many sizes to choose from.
don't have much experience on then yet but 1 ride on a field, they seem ok, hold well when turning especially the front.
but i think any fresh new tire with sharp nobbies will give you sufficient grip in soft soil. the differences will be found on both extremes such as hardpack or heavy mud.

time will tell if these fit ME. top level riders might find downsides of these cheaper tires, maybe a regular rider won't :rolleyes:
if i'm ok with them, and wear is good, i'll get me another set,since price is hard to beat 69?/set :eek:
 
hannesd said:
correct, i am from Belgium. Oh you're from the mountains of Austria :-D

if your mousse had imbalance, did you try spinning it 180 deg around to get the heavy side in the other side of the wheel,to get the heavy side of the mouse on the opposite side of the rim lock?
i still have about 100-150 grams of imbalance after my temp fix but it's ok now.
if this fix holds up till i wear this tire out, i'll try to balance my rim with rimlock and mousse ,without the tire mounted.
then get some better quality tires and see how to mount them after checking the imbalance on the new one.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I was dumb not seeing that it says "Belgium" in the right top corner. I live near Vienna, so not so may mountains here, but enduro riding is strictly forbidden here so we only ride in Hungaria. Its only 70km to the border for me.

Yes, I turned the mousse 180? and it was night and day difference. Unfortunately the mousse fell apart after the next ride :o I have heard that the Razorbacks are very cheap but there are much, much better tires available, but they are of course a lot more expensive.
 
Doc Brown said:
Sorry, I was dumb not seeing that it says "Belgium" in the right top corner. I live near Vienna, so not so may mountains here, but enduro riding is strictly forbidden here so we only ride in Hungaria. Its only 70km to the border for me.

Yes, I turned the mousse 180? and it was night and day difference. Unfortunately the mousse fell apart after the next ride :o I have heard that the Razorbacks are very cheap but there are much, much better tires available, but they are of course a lot more expensive.
Click to expand...

enduro forbidden in all of austria or just your surroundings?
:confused:
 
hannesd said:
80/100 R21 and 110/100 R18 not that many sizes to choose from.
don't have much experience on then yet but 1 ride on a field, they seem ok, hold well when turning especially the front.
but i think any fresh new tire with sharp nobbies will give you sufficient grip in soft soil. the differences will be found on both extremes such as hardpack or heavy mud.

time will tell if these fit ME. top level riders might find downsides of these cheaper tires, maybe a regular rider won't :rolleyes:
if i'm ok with them, and wear is good, i'll get me another set,since price is hard to beat 69?/set :eek:
Click to expand...

I have been thinking about getting these tyres but I've bought some Michelin enduro medium instead. I got a good discount on them. These are mounted on a spare set of wheels, I will use them purely for tracks. My other wheels also have the same tyres fitted , I will use these ones for green lanes with a bit of road work to get between the lanes.

The new tyres are have direction arrows on them , but if you turn them around the tread pattern is the same!

I had 6 days tyres with mooses, didn't like the front at all , kept falling away. Thought it was the tyre, but it was where the moose had shrunk and not holding tyre properly.

Cheers.
 
right, so i went out for a small testride (after squish adjustment during confinement) and still noticed some nervous steering at somewhat higher speeds. suspension settings are bone stock. what if i increase rebound on the forks, could that calm steering down?
 
hannesd said:
that's what i did, just need to test this before i start experimenting with clickers :D
Click to expand...

forks deeper thrue the triple clamps didn't give the needed stability. more rebound did (front + back)...more testing to be done with even more rebound, i'm at +4 clicks stiffer on the rebound from stock settings.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

L
2003 EC200 Setup for Lightweight Rider
Replies
2
Views
3K
RBrider
RBrider
B
1999 EC 300 (updated body and suspension) Twin Cities MN
Replies
6
Views
4K
Jim Cook
Jim Cook
G
2002 GasGas EC200 for sale in Los Angeles, CA
Replies
0
Views
4K
GGforGG
G
B
2015 GasGas EC300ER $5500obo
Replies
1
Views
4K
braaaplifejonesing
B
BLD
First Time At A Motocross Track - 2013 XC300E
Replies
0
Views
7K
BLD
BLD
Back
Top