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Beta Steve

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So obviously I wear my brand on my sleeve, and some of you are overly weight sensitive, hopefully the rest will finish my thread and offer something educated...
I am considering an '11 Six Day 125, the listed weight is 206. I understand the 125 is based on the same frame as the 250, how is it so much lighter? I am wanting to put a 250 or 300 trials top end on it, carb, exhaust and all. Are the bottom ends the same or similar enough between the enduro and trials for this to be feasible?
I love my current bike and will likely do so for a long time, but have always been interested in a sub 200 pound trail bike with trials bike like power and modern upgradeable suspension?
Thanks in advance for any response!
 
Hmm.. Just checked gas gas motos website to try and get an idea/confirmation of whats going on here and the pictures they post are of the 250/300 models. I can confirm the 200/250/300 all share the same chasis. From the look of the 2013 models the 125 is in the same chasis which means any reductions in weight will only be that between the engine, pipe and silencer. You may save a few kgs.

As far as putting a trials 250/300 cylinder onto a 125 bottom end.. The numbers don't even add up. I'm quite certain the 125 gasser is very similar to a yz125.
 
I had an EC 125 and an EC 200.
The only difference between them were the entire engines and the engine cradle portion of the frame. Wheels, suspension, swingarm, plastics, etc all the same.
Could you crossover some of the engine parts, the shifter was the only thing I think. The carb too maybe.

Is that enough for the listed weight difference? possibly, the 125 was definitely not heavy.
Could you make a 125 into a bigger capacity? not really, no. A bore out to 144 has been done, and with fairly major engine work a 152 can be had. As far as much bigger than that, not really at all.

I don't think the trials motors share much with the enduro motors, I stand to be corrected though.
 
Trials engines are quite different in my experience from the enduro engines. You also wouldn't get trials power with just a trials top end. The beauty of trials bikes in the in the combo of smooth power PLUS the transmission. I ride my trials bike is 3rd-4th gears all day usually. You won't do that with an enduro transmission.
 
Two stroke trials and enduro engines don't have a lot in common. Trials gearing is much lower in the first three gears, which is why it will pull much lower rpm in a more controllable way than an enduro without stalling. Even if it was possible to put a trials top end on an enduro crank and gearbox, and get it to run, the gearing would be too high.

Gas Gas did make the Pampera some years ago, which I think was the TXT engine with slightly taller gear ratios and enduro plastics with a seat of sorts. This made a super light trail bike with a trials engine. But I think if you were to put long travel suspension on it and hammer it like an enduro bike, the frame would most likely break.
 
Beta Steve said:
So obviously I wear my brand on my sleeve, and some of you are overly weight sensitive, hopefully the rest will finish my thread and offer something educated...
I am considering an '11 Six Day 125, the listed weight is 206. I understand the 125 is based on the same frame as the 250, how is it so much lighter? I am wanting to put a 250 or 300 trials top end on it, carb, exhaust and all. Are the bottom ends the same or similar enough between the enduro and trials for this to be feasible?
I love my current bike and will likely do so for a long time, but have always been interested in a sub 200 pound trail bike with trials bike like power and modern upgradeable suspension?
Thanks in advance for any response!
Click to expand...

Pick up a Husky CR/WR 125 and put the WB 165 kit on it.. you'll love it !
 
Brantsdad I rode a Husky 144 and did NOT love it.
Stu no I found one with 100 hours on it for less than half Jeff's price.
But I don't know if the project will go forward as I have found no info to support the claimed 206 lb weight...
 
heavy flywheelweights can alter significantly the character of our gasser enduro engines.
i plan on making a few ones on the lathe, with various weights,just t see what i like best.
because i allso want a more tractable bike.
i'll be testing this on my 2001 ec 200.

Hannes.
 
Beta Steve said:
Brantsdad I rode a Husky 144 and did NOT love it.
Stu no I found one with 100 hours on it for less than half Jeff's price.
But I don't know if the project will go forward as I have found no info to support the claimed 206 lb weight...
Click to expand...

If you didn't love the Husky 144 chances are you won't like the GG125 either. No way are you putting a 250/300 top end on the 125 cases so it sounds like you won't be happy with more than the weight.
 
Don't shoot me!

I know I will pay the price for this but it sounds like you are looking to build a KTM Freeride 250R. This thing has my attention. 92.5kgs, 36" seat height 14" ground clearance and electric start. And that high pipe is sexy! From what I have read they should be available in the states by September. I will be standing in line to demo one. I know that it won't be a true Enduro bike but, I am not using all the potential my GG has.
 
byost said:
I know I will pay the price for this but it sounds like you are looking to build a KTM Freeride 250R. This thing has my attention. 95kgs, 36" seat height 13" ground clearance and electric start. From what I have read they should be available in the states by September. I will be standing in line to demo one.
Click to expand...

You might want to wait on your purchase until the supposed 'upgraded' starter motors are fitted / recalls are done......

In theory the bike is a great idea though. Shame its got no kicker as back-up.

http://www.ktmforum.co.uk/off-road-enduro/438041-250-freeride-starting-issues.html
 
byost said:
Thanks for the link. I always wondered why KTM never released anything in the states first. Apparently they are using Europeans as Beta-testers, thanks!
Click to expand...

PMPL - dont thank me, i didnt pay to join the Beta-Testing scheme this time around............ ;)
 
That video is in the link i posted.

Nearly all KTM 2-smokes have starter problems. The guy in that video is a long-term KTM buyer / rider, and with just the smallest amount of research would have found out the 250's starting problems.

Dont get me wrong - All bike have their 'foibles'. But the magic button not working on a bike with no kickstart for back-up is fairly serious.


No sympathy from me.......
 
Beta Steve said:
Brantsdad I rode a Husky 144 and did NOT love it.
Stu no I found one with 100 hours on it for less than half Jeff's price.
But I don't know if the project will go forward as I have found no info to support the claimed 206 lb weight...
Click to expand...

I had heard you rode Kelly's bike.. I'm Kevin_TE250 on the Caf? Husky site... trust me... the WB 165 is a different animal.... I'm riding a George Erl UPTITE 167 right now and love it.. but I want more bottom end the 165 has that... I know its a little smaller displacement.... Ask Kelly for a ride on his CR 165... that might change your mind...

Kevin...
 
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