What is wrong with my Clutch/Drivetrain?

[SideshowBob]

I was out Saturday doing a final post rebuild check up ride and testing the results of the knobby knife. My little test track is very tractable, a mix a clay and sand and pretty virgin stuff. I was cracking the throttle and mostly riding normally with a little hard shifting when I noticed my clutch lever couldn't be pulled all the way into the bars and the clutch wasn't disengaging.

This isn't "drag". The clutch doesn't seem to want to disengage. I bled everything to make sure, no change. When I had it up on the stand running I could get the clutch to disengage (tire to stop spinning in first), but I had to be absolutely crushing the clutch lever in to make it happen.

Did I bend a shift fork? Is something shot?

I have an entire extra engine (same year MC250) that I have been planning to take apart to play with. I took the clutch cover off of it last night, do I unscrew the clutch springs to get the basket to come out? Could I just swap basket for basket to see if that helps?

What steps should I take? Help!

 

[gasgasman]

Might be excessive grooves on the clutch basket fingers.
Take it apart and take a look see.
With the clutch pressure plate off, pull the clutch lever in and see if the push rod moves freely.

 

[SideshowBob]

Might be excessive grooves on the clutch basket fingers.
Take it apart and take a look see.
With the clutch pressure plate off, pull the clutch lever in and see if the push rod moves freely.

Will do. Gonna get her cleaned up and apart tonight. I might take the spare apart first for a little practice.

 

[stainlesscycle]

did you remove clutch slave anytime recently? if so, did you make sure it was seated properly and tightened the bolts evenly while pressing the slave body in to keep it seated?

if not, i'm betting clutch hub or basket fingers are grooved.

 

[SideshowBob]

did you remove clutch slave anytime recently? if so, did you make sure it was seated properly and tightened the bolts evenly while pressing the slave body in to keep it seated?

if not, i'm betting clutch hub or basket fingers are grooved.

Nah, no recent removal but I will check that as I go along. Thanks!

 

[stainlesscycle]

Did I bend a shift fork? Is something shot?

I have an entire extra engine (same year MC250) that I have been planning to take apart to play with. I took the clutch cover off of it last night, do I unscrew the clutch springs to get the basket to come out? Could I just swap basket for basket to see if that helps?

What steps should I take? Help!

definitely not a shift fork if bike shifts normally.

to remove clutch basket and hub:

remover outer cover
remove 6 spring screws.
remove springs, pull pressure plate off, remove clutch plates. remove pushrod (carefull - might have a bearing on the end - can't remember...i work on too many motors..).
unbend hub center lock nut lock.
zip clutch hub nut off with rattle gun.

remove hub - pay attention to spacer location
remove basket - pay attention to spacer location, and be careful with bearing/bushings.

inspect clutch hub and basket for wear. check basket cush for slop (gear should not move independent of basket..)

then take a look at your other hub and basket. put the best combination back in there.

 

[nmrider]

sounds to me like the slave cylinder piston has come out of the cylinder, take the slave cylinder off and push it back in you may have to bleed afterword.

 

[SideshowBob]

Why would that happen?

 

[SideshowBob]

So I took some time tonight and tore down the whole clutch of my spare MC250 Motor. It looks pretty good except one broken friction plate. The inner few steels are a little blue but the outers look new. The basket appears to be pretty useable so that is good.

Is there any magical method to take the nut that holds the inner part of the basket off? My impact is weak, not air. 6th gear and hold the rear wheel?

Also the fold over metal nut holder, is that reuseable?

I plan on cleaning the EC tomorrow night, popping the skid off, then checking the slave as nmrider suggested. If that doesn't work I'll pull the clutch apart.

Here are the pics of the MC clutch-

 

[gasgasman]

An impact is the easiest tool to remove the nut. Putting the bike in gear won't do anything as the clutch is taken apart.
You will have to hold the inner basket. Some people take a steel clutch plate and weld a bar to it to hold the inner basket.

The locking washer is reuseable.

To properly diagnose your bike. DON'T start ripping it apart.
Remove one part at a time and check them as you go.

The MC basket looks good.

 

[SideshowBob]

Um no, when the bike was in 6th it most certainly was holding the inner basket, that's how I got it off. I used huge pair of vice grips and held the sprocket splines. Not the prettiest method but it worked.

The outer basket piece spins with/is spun by the motor.


Re: One piece at a time- I am trying!

 

[GMP]

Before you go too far check the slave o-ring, may have swollen and/or rolled in its groove. Cruiser had a weird problem like this on his '03, really hard pull. Other than that, if anything happened to increase the release travel (like a loose basket) the slave may bottom before the clutch releases.

If you pull the pressure plate off and there is still excessive resistance, its the slave.

A grooved basket has nothing to do with a hard lever, all the slave does is push the pressure plate up through the rod.

 

[stainlesscycle]

was it a 'hard lever' ? he said 'crushing the lever' i thought that meant you had to be all the way into the bar to get it to disengage. if it's a 'resistance' type feel it's definitely slave (probable) or master (doubtful)

but you did say there was a broken friction right? it's not all for naught - and you learned a good skill

p.s. you didn't need to remove snap ring on pressure plate - the throwout stays with the pressure plate. but you get to inspect it at least..

 

[SideshowBob]

was it a 'hard lever' ? he said 'crushing the lever' i thought that meant you had to be all the way into the bar to get it to disengage. if it's a 'resistance' type feel it's definitely slave (probable) or master (doubtful)

but you did say there was a broken friction right? it's not all for naught - and you learned a good skill

p.s. you didn't need to remove snap ring on pressure plate - the throwout stays with the pressure plate. but you get to inspect it at least..

It is resistance. I should have been more detailed. I am pretty sure it's not the master cause it bled fine and dandy.

The clutch I took apart wasn't on the working Gas Gas. I have an entire extra motor. Yes I realize now I can (and will!) leave the snap ring on.

Before you go too far check the slave o-ring, may have swollen and/or rolled in its groove. Cruiser had a weird problem like this on his '03, really hard pull. Other than that, if anything happened to increase the release travel (like a loose basket) the slave may bottom before the clutch releases.

If you pull the pressure plate off and there is still excessive resistance, its the slave.

A grooved basket has nothing to do with a hard lever, all the slave does is push the pressure plate up through the rod.

Great advice thanks!!!!

 

[SideshowBob]

Realized I never posted these-

 

[SideshowBob]

It was the nut that holds the clutch hub (inner basket?) on. It was loose, so when the clutch cylinder bottomed out it still wasn't separating.

That stupid nut holding metal flange is worthless though. Pain the ass to deal with/get back on some kind of properly.


It's fixed and I am going riding tomorrow!!!!

 

[stainlesscycle]

That stupid nut holding metal flange is worthless though. Pain the ass to deal with/get back on some kind of properly.

the metal lock tab is very easy to use. to tighten: get a large pair of channel locks, place 1 plier end on side of nut, and one on edge of lock tab, and squeeze. the lock tab will bend up. hard to describe, easy to do.

to loosen: i hit them with a punch, they flatten right out.

 

[SideshowBob]

Thanks I'll give that a try when I pull it back out to check up on everything and retorque.