What's next?

[barkeater]

Back in 2001, the setup on a stock Gasser was pretty special, now it seems to be just one in the crowd of many.

Since the last flurry of dirt bike innovation in the early 2000's, I've been watching as the bikes of several different brands all essentially become the same machine with different colored plastic.

My question is this, where is the next big technological advance going to come from - the next thing that rocks the dirt bike world.

Not just a switch to aluminum or titanium frames, I mean a BIG change, along the lines of the YZ monoshock in the mid-70's or the big 4 stroke Husaberg engine of the mid-80's (adopted by KTM in the 90's). Something that changes the way we all think about dirt bikes. Cannondale tried, but failed. All-wheel-drive seems to have some interesting potential.

Has the basic dirt bike design reached the apex of it's potential?

 

[Brian VT]

Electric bikes ? They're not quite practical yet, but they look fun and might solve some of the social issues. A jump in battery tech. might allow it to happen.

 

[eff]

Electric bikes ? They're not quite practical yet, but they look fun and might solve some of the social issues. A jump in battery tech. might allow it to happen.

We'll have to go back to putting playing cards in the spokes.

 

[Brian VT]

We'll have to go back to putting playing cards in the spokes.

Naw, this is the new technology: http://www.turbospoke.com/products.asp

 

[gasgasman]

Ever since they banned works bikes, the technology just seemed to stop.

Look at bikes from the 80s. Everything you see on a bike now was developed in the 80s-power valve, rear mono shock,inverted forks, water cooling,..........

 

[onebrow]

I've read about some high tech kart engine prototypes. 2 strokes with fuel injection and no lube oil. Metallurgy has been advanced and coupled with composites so no lubrication is required. Helps with the emissions. This is the way of the future for the 2 stroke.

 

[anathema]

Have you guys seen these?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tweel

http://www.gizmag.co.uk/go/3603/

One of these on a Dirt bike would be amazing! Good lateral stiffness, really soft tire for smoothness in dirt, no more flats..etc etc. Seems like a fantastic development!

Or how about true multiport direct fuel injection of a two stroke bike. Tons of torque and power, decent emissions, good gas milage. Water cool it and use normal oil lubrication (not in the fuel)...etc.

What about a switch to a single sided swingarm like some sport bikes. Or yeah, all wheel drive using hydraulic, electric, or chain driven front wheel?

What about monoshock up front like BMW is using in some of their bikes? (Telelever/Duolever) Basically eliminates brake-dive and really drops unsprung weight. You also now have double wishbone suspension front and rear. Here is the telelever version, and the duolever is even better totally decoupling steering from suspension.

Go here to see the duolever one:

http://www.carbibles.com/suspension_bible_bikes.html

It is at the bottom.

It also shows single sided swingarm suspensions.

There are the obvious little things other than that such as re-doing the frame as mentioned in titanium/aluminum and generally making the engines smaller and more powerful.


Who knows, maybe some revolutionary battery tech will come along, and we will all be riding 150lb electric bikes in the future. There are already mass produced electric dirt bikes out there with 20hp and 4-5 hour run-times weighing 100lbs less than a honda CRF150. This is with todays tech. With better batteries we could have lighter and longer lasting ones. 100% engine torque from 0RPM and no transmission or anything needed, just throttle and 2 brakes. No engine to wear out, basically 3 moving parts (shaft in electric motor, and wheels spinning..and i guess suspension) Bike will last forever! And 40hp electric is ten times more insane than 40hp ICE because you have ALL of your torque available at any time, just twist the throttle.

Hell maybe fuel cells will improve a lot and enable this, who knows. You dont even need to start the damn thing, jsut turn the key and its ready! Should help for those harescramble starts


Don't give up on fancy new dirtbike tech yet guys, this is just the stuff I could think of and I'm far from a genius. Now maybe GasGas will read this post and make me a titanium framed single sided swingarm all-wheel-drive direct injection two-stroke bike, with crazy cool suspension all around. GO!

 

[blitz11]

My thoughts lie in the area of active suspension. At the present time, you can only do so much with passive valving, fixed or rising suspension rates. Imagine what you could do with variable, active damping (magneto-resistive fluids) and active spring rates. Add a 3 axis accelerometer to the frame, and close that loop! You could do quite a bit to improve motorcycle performance.

I've thought about this quite a bit, and it would seem that this is the area where things really could improve.

I've got ideas, but no time. Maybe when I retire in 30 years.

My $0.02.

 

[anathema]

also!

What about some kind of hydraulic or electromagnetic valves for your engine. Could produce optimal torque in all rpm ranges! No cam/timing train to worry about for maintenance anymore either.

 

[GMP]

That exists now, saw it in an engeneering mag recently. Only good for about 10K RPM so far. Very promising for 4-strokes though, total control through the ECU, and a lot less weight on the top of the motor. Pneumatic actuators are used in F1 engines now as well

I think that materials technology will improve allowing a reduction in size/weight without a compromise in reliability. Thats the wall everyone is hitting in 250F development. If you can make an engine smaller, now you have options for positioning and centralizing mass, like a lay down cylinder design. Keep all the weight low, including fuel.

 

[gasgasman]

F1 just blows everyone away with new technology.
They can alter a car's telemetry at certain parts of a race track via GPS signals.

The Kawasaki MotoGP bike has pnuematic valve actuation for 2007.

 

[GMP]

Yes, because thats where the money is. For that technology to trickle down to offf road and even motocross, it will have to mature enough to become affordable in production.

 

[jeffd]

Adding electronics for active suspension would be great - but having a sensor or actuator failure would need to fall back on a mechanical operation that wouldn't risk life or limb. The liability involved for a manufacturer might be a big factor - particularly here in the U.S.

A couple of scenarios are scary...

- you kill your motor coming into a corner and your suspension "quits too"...
- Software is written by humans - buggy suspension? "Well, when I hit two bumps in a row 'it hangs'..." yikes

jeff

 

[barkeater]

I know at one point Norton was experimenting with wankel engines in their road racers - anyone ever tried a rotary in a dirt bike?

I like the telelever if you could keep the weight down

What about a front breather, rear exhaust (like C dale) with a rotary engine and telelever front.

Heard that BMW may be acquiring Husky - that could lead to some new off-road technology.

 

[jeffd]

Suzuki made a rotary for a few years in the mid-70s. Hercules made a rotary

http://www.chromeclassics.com/1975_hercules.html

http://www.suzukicycles.org/RE5/RE5-Rotary.shtml

Just a quick search on wikipedia - states that norton bought the tooling from hercules (DKW) for the rotary - so norton is descendant from it...

I was living in Utah in the early 70s and had an old ski-doo snowmobile - I remember a few wankel snowmobiles hitting the market - horrible fuel mileage greatly limited their range.


jeff

 

[GMP]

The rotary has a very good power to weight/size ratio, but as Jeff noted less desireable fuel milage. The Mazda is probably the most refined rotary. Ever see how small that engine is? I have no idea off hand how they compare as far as emmisions go and how hard they are to clean up. That will be the catch.

 

[skid jackson]

Barkeater

I believe bmw just bought one of husky's factories and the tooling to make f650 x's and maybe a 4t enduro bike of thier own.

 

[barkeater]

Ah. Rumors.

 

[barkeater]

Now this is what I'm talking about.

 

[skid jackson]

looks interesting but ....
Hate to see what the rocks in my nieghborhood would do to those frame rails?? Cha Ching!!!!!