Why is the 2015 estart design better than the 2014?

CombatYoga

CombatYoga

Gold Level Site Supporter
I've read through some pretty detailed posts on the estart assemblies of our gassers, so maybe an expert can weigh in. I'm curious as to why the new design is better.

They say that the '15 stater is backward compatible to the '14, and I'm trying to justify whatever the cost would be to do this.

I've attached schematics of both starters.
 

Attachments

  • starter 2014.jpg
    starter 2014.jpg
    104.3 KB · Views: 63
  • starter 2015.jpg
    starter 2015.jpg
    78.9 KB · Views: 60
From what I've seen (dealer had one apart during predelivery) the system should be better as it uses a reduction gear to drive the bendix which in turn throws out to engage the flywheel ring gear on the same plane. This should be superior to the '14 and earlier designs which had the bendix meshing with the flywheel on a different plane.
In theory. I am also considering the upgrade but I'll wait on reviews from actual owners first.
 
A Beta type starter will be an improvement. From what I can see is the only thing they did was shift it and make it a bit smaller.
 
iamovru said:
A Beta type starter will be an improvement. From what I can see is the only thing they did was shift it and make it a bit smaller.
Click to expand...


True but that'll be a long while off. Would cost a fortune for all the new casts etc.

And having said that they are similar now in that both engage the bendix and throw it out to engage with the ring gear on the same vertical plane.

IMO that was the problem with previous GG starter design. Too much reliance on the clearance to ensure smooth engagement and then disengagement of the bendix to the ring gear.

An Australian magazine has a '15 demo at the moment, be interesting to see what they say if anything about it.
 
i thought the older design worked awesome once you took the fly weight spring out and streched it over the old wine bottle! increased engagement exponentially. the gasket issue with spacing the the bendix seemed much less common in my experience
 
nambo-trev said:
i thought the older design worked awesome once you took the fly weight spring out and streched it over the old wine bottle! increased engagement exponentially. the gasket issue with spacing the the bendix seemed much less common in my experience
Click to expand...

True, but if the new design never has issues, then it must be better for the brand image right?

Although, imagine if Gasgas actually produced a bike that didn't require tinkering, what we all do? :p
 
I won't disagree, I'm hoping the new design will be top notch. I love the gassers good and bad and have been seeing a lot more good lately which is refreshing. I love that people give me a hard time riding a gasser out here. When I'm passing them it always seems like there at a lose for words funny right
 
nambo-trev said:
I won't disagree, I'm hoping the new design will be top notch. I love the gassers good and bad and have been seeing a lot more good lately which is refreshing. I love that people give me a hard time riding a gasser out here. When I'm passing them it always seems like there at a lose for words funny right
Click to expand...

I agree with this. I'm 100% faster on the gasser. I love this bike.

My '13 hasn't had a single starter issue. Hopefully it stays that way. I don't think I will ever go back to a bike without the magic button.
 
I may end up being the guinea pig here. I raced my first endure today (restart format).
My estart has almost completely sh*t the bed. Rarely engages and almost sounds like there's something loose rattling around in there. Had to take off for a biz trip but I'll tear into it when I get home. Will be calling GoFasters to price the new assembly.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Rip it apart then talk to us about it. I retrofitted my nambotin with the estart And new wiring harness last winter and learned a lot about tricks and ways to make these starters work great. Don't go buy the whole assembly or even a Bendix without telling us what's going on. We probably can help you
 
The new starter only fits the 2014 up models.

http://www.gasgasmotos.es/en/racing-parts1/213-electric-starter.html

ee85500ct-cab-11.jpg


ee85500ct-cab-1_01.jpg
 
Opened up the starter today

Cracked open the starter today when I got home and it is clear why it's making a lot of racket and not engaging properly.

3 teeth are missing from the ring gear that the electric starter motor engages into! They have broken off - the pieces were still in the metal housing mixed in with the whitish grease that's in there. Notice that they were not "filed down" - they broke completely off of the ring gear.

The question is why did this happen?

If I understand it correctly, the gear on the end of the starter motor should stay in constant contact with this ring gear.

If you look at the 3rd picture, you see two silver scuff marks in the side of the casing. That's right where the gear shaft from the electric starter motor sits. It almost looks like it is not aligned properly so it is rubbing on the housing.
Could that explain the teeth failure on the ring gear? I would almost expect a "wearing down" of the teeth if the starter gear shaft was not aligned correctly and it was only engaging the tips of the teeth (which would be the case if this starter shaft was aligned away enough so that it was rubbing on the housing).

Is that entire piece with the missing teeth called the bendix? It looks to me like I cannot simply replace that top horizontal ring gear, rather I have to buy an entire bendix.

I see the spring that everyone is talking about that they stretch a bit. It doesn't seem to me that that is an issue with mine though.

Interested in thoughts from those of you guys who have grappled with this thing before.
 

Attachments

  • missing teeth 1.jpg
    missing teeth 1.jpg
    108.8 KB · Views: 82
  • missing teeth 2.jpg
    missing teeth 2.jpg
    111.1 KB · Views: 78
  • looking down.jpg
    looking down.jpg
    114.3 KB · Views: 72
  • straight down at ring gear.jpg
    straight down at ring gear.jpg
    111 KB · Views: 76
CombatYoga said:
Cracked open the starter today when I got home and it is clear why it's making a lot of racket and not engaging properly.

3 teeth are missing from the ring gear that the electric starter motor engages into! They have broken off - the pieces were still in the metal housing mixed in with the whitish grease that's in there. Notice that they were not "filed down" - they broke completely off of the ring gear.

The question is why did this happen?

If I understand it correctly, the gear on the end of the starter motor should stay in constant contact with this ring gear.

If you look at the 3rd picture, you see two silver scuff marks in the side of the casing. That's right where the gear shaft from the electric starter motor sits. It almost looks like it is not aligned properly so it is rubbing on the housing.
Could that explain the teeth failure on the ring gear? I would almost expect a "wearing down" of the teeth if the starter gear shaft was not aligned correctly and it was only engaging the tips of the teeth (which would be the case if this starter shaft was aligned away enough so that it was rubbing on the housing).

Is that entire piece with the missing teeth called the bendix? It looks to me like I cannot simply replace that top horizontal ring gear, rather I have to buy an entire bendix.

I see the spring that everyone is talking about that they stretch a bit. It doesn't seem to me that that is an issue with mine though.

Interested in thoughts from those of you guys who have grappled with this thing before.
Click to expand...

That bendix is retardley expensive. I'd be pissed if that were my 14'!
 
Those teeth shouldn't have snapped off. I'd be contacting your local dealer/distributor. Even if it's out of warranty they should replace it for you under warranty. It's clear from the white factory grease you haven't messed with it previously.
As for why they snapped off who knows. Those scuff marks may be scuff marks or they may be factory cleanup marks. My '14 has them on the LHS cover, mainly around the area where the bendix sits.

I spoke to the Aus importer today and he confirmed the '15 estart system will only fit '14 and onward bikes. He is going to make enquiries for me too about availability and pricing on an upgrade kit from '14 up to '15 system. Should just be different starter motor, LHS cover and bendix. Maybe flywheel ring gear too. I doubt it will be cheap.
 
That is really odd almost like a manufacturing problem in the gear. I'd definetly ask the dealer wtf on a new bike??
 
I sent the pictures of the broken teeth on the bendix ring gear to my dealer and spoke
to him on the phone.
He is a stand up guy.
I'll keep the group posted.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top