Winter tires
- Thread starter GMP
- Start date
MattR
Super Moderator
Glenn,
I came across the Motorace website the other day. They stud Cheng Shin, Michelin, and Trelleborg tires. They list the base tires that you could use as reference. I have also seen the Maxxis IT tires used. Basically, you need a larger lug pattern and intermediate compound. Soft compounds will flex too much and the studs (or screws) will tear out or crack the lugs at the base.
Here is the Motorace website:
http://www.motorace.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=M&Category_Code=tre
A couple years ago, I bought a studded CS tire from a friend. It looks like the Motorace type. I have a 18" studded Trelleborg that I purchased through Hall's. Both have worked excellent. Kold Kutter screws are fine for several rides, but the carbide studs are the only way for best traction and longest life.
I have a 19" rear wheel on my CR125, so now I need to buy a 19" studded tire or find a used 18" wheel. A stud gun like your friend's would be great, but it is very labor intensive (drill each lug, apply glue, and insert stud). After all the material costs, $200+ tires such as Motorace's is a fair price.
FYI... I also priced out the "Best Grip" carbide stud options. Those are carbide studs that screw in. They run about $100 for a bag of 100 studs. You would need about 250-300 studs for a rear tire. So again you are at the price of a studded Trelleborg from Motorace.
Winter riding is a blast! The only downside is the initial investment in studded tires, but the carbide versions last many seasons.
I came across the Motorace website the other day. They stud Cheng Shin, Michelin, and Trelleborg tires. They list the base tires that you could use as reference. I have also seen the Maxxis IT tires used. Basically, you need a larger lug pattern and intermediate compound. Soft compounds will flex too much and the studs (or screws) will tear out or crack the lugs at the base.
Here is the Motorace website:
http://www.motorace.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=M&Category_Code=tre
A couple years ago, I bought a studded CS tire from a friend. It looks like the Motorace type. I have a 18" studded Trelleborg that I purchased through Hall's. Both have worked excellent. Kold Kutter screws are fine for several rides, but the carbide studs are the only way for best traction and longest life.
I have a 19" rear wheel on my CR125, so now I need to buy a 19" studded tire or find a used 18" wheel. A stud gun like your friend's would be great, but it is very labor intensive (drill each lug, apply glue, and insert stud). After all the material costs, $200+ tires such as Motorace's is a fair price.
FYI... I also priced out the "Best Grip" carbide stud options. Those are carbide studs that screw in. They run about $100 for a bag of 100 studs. You would need about 250-300 studs for a rear tire. So again you are at the price of a studded Trelleborg from Motorace.
Winter riding is a blast! The only downside is the initial investment in studded tires, but the carbide versions last many seasons.
Last winter I used 2 michelin ac 10 front tires and three ac 10 rears. I only participated 2 winter enduro races. So they wear when you use them... Our winter lasts from Nowember to Aprill.
Now I bought one set Trelleborgs and one set Michelin AC 10 (to start this season). Not cheap winter riding...
WTEC
New member
I stud my own tires and the main things to look for in a good tire are a soft compound and large knobs, keep in mind that the compound hardens up quite a bit when it hits the snow. The Michellin AC-10's work good as well as the white stripe Trelleborgs if you can find them. Don't bother with the red stripe Trelle's, the compound is too hard and the stud gun leaves small cracks around the stud when the fingers stretch it. There is a cheap Maxxis that works good on the front also... 6001 model, but the rear sucks. Dirt Shark's used to be decent also, before the price went through the roof. I've been meaning to try a Kenda "sticky" model but their prices have gone up a lot.
Try not to pack too many studs in one knob, you need to leave some rubber around the stud to support it. Also, be aware of the angle as you're drilling the holes because the studs will flex different ways depending on where they are on the tire and if it is a front or rear.
Wes.
Try not to pack too many studs in one knob, you need to leave some rubber around the stud to support it. Also, be aware of the angle as you're drilling the holes because the studs will flex different ways depending on where they are on the tire and if it is a front or rear.
Wes.
mcnut
New member
Winter is my favorite time to ride. I run a set of Trelleborg (white stripe) Winter Friction tires. This will be the fourth season on them and I ride a lot. Mostly I abuse the tires on frozen ground (without snow). It's cheating, traction is so good. They are excellent in up to about 6 inches of snow. They seem very expensive but when you consider how long they last, the price is OK. Despite my abuse, I've only shed one stud so far.
GMP
Active member
Thanks guys. I might do it if I have some extra time this winter and we get snow that stays. Really rocky here with a lot of hills so its easy to ruin expensive tires unless there is a good base, which is not consistant as I'm south of the real snow country in New York and New England. One reason I havn't made the big investment yet. The other is we do a lot of skiing and boarding which eats up time and $$. I was just wondering if I could get into it cheaper rolling my own. I have ice raced/ridden with the screws and I know they wouldn't last a day in the woods here.
HuskyDude
Super Moderator
I've studded (screws) my own before. Very time consuming and labour intense.
They hold up OK but you do break off screws on rocks etc. I don't think I'll make another pair with screw again.
This might be my next choice...anyone try them yet? Still a lot of work.
Grip Studs
If money really isn't an issue buy the Trellie's.
They hold up OK but you do break off screws on rocks etc. I don't think I'll make another pair with screw again.
This might be my next choice...anyone try them yet? Still a lot of work.
Grip Studs
If money really isn't an issue buy the Trellie's.
skid jackson
New member
I've been told that by a number of guys who ride in new england. Don't sweat the rocks just ride. One rider is on his seventh season on a set of trellies. Although he said the older ones seem to hold up better than the newer ones. I've been debating getting a set of trellies .. there are a couple of guys in my area that make homebrew tires that are suppose to be pretty good.
WTEC
New member
We ride a good mix of rocks, roots, logs and dirt and honestly, the way you ride has a lot more to do with tire longevity than where you ride. Carrying momentum and being smooth will get you way farther than pinning it in the snow. You still use the rubber knobs on the rocks because the studs can't bite so they flex out of the way, if you are spinning, you loose studs. If you can maintain good traction with throttle control your tires will last a lot longer.
Eff: thanks for the IT desert recommendation, I was eye balling one last year but wasn't sure I could get the stud count I wanted.
Wes.
Eff: thanks for the IT desert recommendation, I was eye balling one last year but wasn't sure I could get the stud count I wanted.
Wes.
These days Trelleborg tyres are made in Czech republic. Same factory produces Mitas tyres. Older Trellies were different and "hand made" in Sweden. I don't say that new Trellies are bad, but different. Mitas makes their own studded endurotires too. I'd try Mitas as soon as I have used my Trellies and Michelins.
Someone said that you can use one pair of tires for many years. Ok it depends how much you ride with them and how you ride with them. In my personal use one rear tyre is good for one race. Sure I can train with it about half winter after that, but it's not good enough for race. Front tyre may last half winter (or not).
Most thing that spoil spikes is transitional riding from one stage to another. Roads are often tarmac and spikes get hot if time schedule is tight. In practice they melt.
In March we have Paijanteen ympariajo (Around Lake Paijanne race). It lasts from friday morning to sunday evening. Total course is about 900km. It includes 26 stages and the rest of it is mostly icy tarmac roads. It's possible to succeed with one pair of tyres if driven carefuly, but most riders use two rear tyres. I'm going to be prepared with two sets and extra rear... (Thats the most expensive part of that race because I have to pay it from my own pocket
Someone said that you can use one pair of tires for many years. Ok it depends how much you ride with them and how you ride with them. In my personal use one rear tyre is good for one race. Sure I can train with it about half winter after that, but it's not good enough for race. Front tyre may last half winter (or not).
Most thing that spoil spikes is transitional riding from one stage to another. Roads are often tarmac and spikes get hot if time schedule is tight. In practice they melt.
In March we have Paijanteen ympariajo (Around Lake Paijanne race). It lasts from friday morning to sunday evening. Total course is about 900km. It includes 26 stages and the rest of it is mostly icy tarmac roads. It's possible to succeed with one pair of tyres if driven carefuly, but most riders use two rear tyres. I'm going to be prepared with two sets and extra rear... (Thats the most expensive part of that race because I have to pay it from my own pocket
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MattR
Super Moderator
Glenn,
I came across this today. Another option for slightly cheaper studded tires. Kevin's Cycle uses the IRC tires with 2 different stud lengths for either rocky or snowy trails.
http://kevinscycle.blogspot.com/2010/11/winter-studded-tires.html
Scroll to the bottom for all studded tire prices:
http://www.kevinscycleracing.com/tires.htm
I came across this today. Another option for slightly cheaper studded tires. Kevin's Cycle uses the IRC tires with 2 different stud lengths for either rocky or snowy trails.
http://kevinscycle.blogspot.com/2010/11/winter-studded-tires.html
Scroll to the bottom for all studded tire prices:
http://www.kevinscycleracing.com/tires.htm
GMP
Active member
Matt,
I've done a fair amount of business with Kevin's over the years. Good supplier. That article was a good read, and it describes my style with a trials tire exactly. We'll see, I have to get the bike apart for service and back together, lots of little stuff. If winter is tough this year with a lot of snow I'll be more motivated.
I've done a fair amount of business with Kevin's over the years. Good supplier. That article was a good read, and it describes my style with a trials tire exactly. We'll see, I have to get the bike apart for service and back together, lots of little stuff. If winter is tough this year with a lot of snow I'll be more motivated.
These days Trelleborg tyres are made in Czech republic. Same factory produces Mitas tyres. Older Trellies were different and "hand made" in Sweden. I don't say that new Trellies are bad, but different. Mitas makes their own studded endurotires too. I'd try Mitas as soon as I have used my Trellies and Michelins.
Someone said that you can use one pair of tires for many years. Ok it depends how much you ride with them and how you ride with them. In my personal use one rear tyre is good for one race. Sure I can train with it about half winter after that, but it's not good enough for race. Front tyre may last half winter (or not).
Most thing that spoil spikes is transitional riding from one stage to another. Roads are often tarmac and spikes get hot if time schedule is tight. In practice they melt.
In March we have Paijanteen ympariajo (Around Lake Paijanne race). It lasts from friday morning to sunday evening. Total course is about 900km. It includes 26 stages and the rest of it is mostly icy tarmac roads. It's possible to succeed with one pair of tyres if driven carefuly, but most riders use two rear tyres. I'm going to be prepared with two sets and extra rear... (Thats the most expensive part of that race because I have to pay it from my own pocket
No more Trellies.
I ordeded Trelleborg rear tyre and got it yesterday. Surprisingly it looked like Trelleborg but was Mitas. So Trelleborg as trademark is history. Guy that sold it said that in his personal opinion Mitas tyres are as good as trellies were. He raced last winterseason with Mitas tyres in Finnish enduro championship series with 250 HM Honda.
Trellies were known as good tires when there is lots of snow. They were not so good in solid ice. Let's see how Mitas marked "trellies" work...
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nambo-trev
New member
WTEC studded some irc's last year(he does a really good job) and they didnt hold up the greatest. not as well as the ac-10. but studded trelles from the factory are by far the best. ive yet to see the penetration and stud life on a homemade tire compare to a real trelle t-454 winter friction.
mcnut
New member
You're doing great if your screws stay in that long. I can't get the teenagers here to last a day without spitting at least some of them out.
I prefer Trellies but haven't tried an IRC. A friend had a Pirelli that looked as if it was studded using the same process and carbide-tipped studs as the Trelleborg. His rear was toast after one season, although he's still using the front.
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