'09 EC250 Jetting - Baseline help?

[liv2day]

Helping my brother-in-law as this is his first 2T and I just checked everything yesterday. I looked through the jetting thread and it appears as if the 180 MJ is pretty common for our temp/elev, but I'm wondering about the PJ and the needle. This is where we spend most of our time since it's tight and technical.

180 MJ
N1EF #3
40 PJ
#7 slide
A/S 1.5

Temps in the 60-70s
Typical riding elevation 1500 - 3500 ft

I took a quick rip on his bike and the first thing I noticed is holy CARP it pulls like crazy; it's almost too much power when on the gas through the first 3 gears...front end doesn't want to stay on the ground. I'm hoping there's something I can do to tame this down some?

There was bit of drool coming out the pipe and it's not the Q-Stealth (Turbine Core) - might be a little rich?

I also noticed there isn't a smooth transition when going from 1/4 throttle to 3/4; slight burble and hesitation.

Any input or pointers greatly appreciated...I'm just barely ahead of my brother-in-law when it comes to jetting...lol.

 

[liv2day]

Ok, I've read through a whole bunch of threads and they lead me to believe I need to swap out the stock needle with a Zuk or Yam needle - though I'd like to ask for some help before doing so.

The bike has the old screw-style top carb and it's an '09; would this be the ASII or ASI carb? I should have looked this morning as the bike's torn apart in my garage, but I forgot.

Since it's the screw-top carb, I think I need to go with one of these needles:

N3EG from this thread (http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=13352)

Or would perhaps one of these would be better:

NECW or NEDW from this thread (http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=12546)

Jakobi - can you lend any assistance here...please ? I want to get a couple needles to play with for testing. The stock needle is harsh and it sounds like many have experienced better performance with one of the three needles listed above. Since I'm spending my brother-in-law's money, I'd prefer to get a couple and not go overboard...lol.

 

[Jakobi]

Here in Australia-o, one of my mates has an 09250R. Pretty sure he ran around 38/40 N3EG#3 180 on a modified head.

The Suzuki needles should work too, and I'd recommend very similar 40 NEDG 175/178.

The older carb just needs to be jetted a little richer across the board.

I know several others speak very highly of the JD Blue needle in the AS1 Carbs as well. Might be able to source one of these cheaply of another member who's found love with the Red needle. You very rarely see them both work well.

 

[liv2day]

Here in Australia-o, one of my mates has an 09250R. Pretty sure he ran around 38/40 N3EG#3 180 on a modified head.

The Suzuki needles should work too, and I'd recommend very similar 40 NEDG 175/178.

The older carb just needs to be jetted a little richer across the board.

I know several others speak very highly of the JD Blue needle in the AS1 Carbs as well. Might be able to source one of these cheaply of another member who's found love with the Red needle. You very rarely see them both work well.

Awesome, thanks for the input Jake I'm going to get one of the N3EG needles and start there; will probably also get one of the NEDG needles to have on hand.

To verify, a quick web search for N3EG gives a Yamaha p/n of 4SR-14916-EG-00 - sound like the one I'm after? And the NEDG needle is a Zuk RM of p/n 13383-37FJ0; sound right?

I'll also throw a thread up in the WTB section on the JD blue...never know

 

[gasmonkey]

If you want to go ktm way----54731134000 ktm jet needle keihin n3eg.

 

[sweeper]

Before you try to tame it down put a few rides on it and see where he lands.
But if it isnt rideable here is some of what you can do in order.
Flywheel weight.
Different silencer.
Higher gearing.
Spacer on the intake.
Richer jetting.

There is more you can do but I would start there.

 

[liv2day]

Before you try to tame it down put a few rides on it and see where he lands.

Cool, good ideas. Richer jetting and gearing will be easy to try. I need to check the gearing; don't remember what it is off the top of my head. I'm looking forward to trying the N3EG needles and see what that does.

 

[firffighter]

Brad,

My brother has an '03 ec250 and he has it jetted to perfection. It was a long process of trial and error, but it is so linear and crisp. Very easy to ride with the low end that feels like a 300 and the crisp response when needed.

He, of course, has RB head mod and is running: 40 pilot, 170 main, #7 slide, CCK #2.

BTW, you planning on riding the ec250? Love to hear your impressions if you do.

 

[liv2day]

He, of course, has RB head mod and is running: 40 pilot, 170 main, #7 slide, CCK #2.

BTW, you planning on riding the ec250? Love to hear your impressions if you do.

Hey Russ -

That's quite a bit leaner on the MJ than this came with, might look into going leaner if she feels fat up top (think I have a 175 MJ in my collection). I ordered the Yamaha needle (N3EG) and I'm going to throw that in this weekend to test. If it doesn't feel that good, I'll tell my brother-in-law to order the CCK. The bike hasn't had the head mod yet - that'll probably happen when I'm able to walk him through what needs to be done.

I'm sure I'll take a few spins on the 250 when we do the Tee Pee run at McCubbins the last weekend of May. Are you going? Anyway, my first impression on riding it up and down our gravel road is HOLY CARP - the thing has a crazy hit that launches the front wheel skyward through the first 3 gears. I mean, it's an insane hit that's pretty tough to control. I'm hoping the different needle will help smooth the transition and make it manageable - he's likely to put himself into a tree given how hard she hits. I'll be curious to see how she handles the trails, doesn't feel quite as nimble as my 200 - though I did notice the suspension was set pretty stiff, so that needs to be softened.

 

[firffighter]

When my brother and I first got our ec250's I thought I had made made a big mistake. It was one of the most intimidating bikes I had ridden! The jetting was so aggressive that you spent the entire ride reigning the bike in or riding a least a gear high if not 2.

So, the jetting process began and eventually I sold it with the jetting better, but not great. My brother kept his and now has it perfect. I must say it is so easy to ride. Smooth linear delivery and very controllable. It's a bike you can ride all day now. Very enjoyable.


Yes, I'm taking 2 of my boys up for the fun run on Saturday of the teepee. I have to work on Sunday. We'll have to hook up.

 

[roverhybrids]

wouldn't the yami needle be the wrong choice for the type of performance you are after?

I think the sudco or suzuki needles would give more linear performance?

 

[Jakobi]

I believe he's ordered one of each. Better to try a given setting and know where you stand with it than never try and never know..

But the N3xx needle is going to hit hard as well. Even the Suzi needles have some hit. Bit less violent in the mid range, but still a transition. Its the nature of the 250. It makes less power down low than a 300, and the same up top.. The difference is made up in the mid range!! BRAAAP If you try and jet the hit out too much it'll be too lean. Best bet is to tune it for power, and then add a G2 cammed throttle, fly wheel weight, or taller gearing to mellow the beast.

 

[firffighter]

My brothers ec250 had virtually no hit and is completely linear. It's taken a lot of trial and error to jet the hit out of the 250, but it's possible.

With a 40 pilot and 170 main some have tried to say it's too lean, but if you live in the Northwest it's not too lean. Plug is perfect tan and he checks his top end after each season and everything looks perfect.

Again, jetting is very subjective. If you'd like to try his 250 Brad, just let me know and I'm sure we could arrange it. I might be able to bring it up to mcubbins.

 

[MJC]

I believe he's ordered one of each. Better to try a given setting and know where you stand with it than never try and never know..

But the N3xx needle is going to hit hard as well. Even the Suzi needles have some hit. Bit less violent in the mid range, but still a transition. Its the nature of the 250. It makes less power down low than a 300, and the same up top.. The difference is made up in the mid range!! BRAAAP If you try and jet the hit out too much it'll be too lean. Best bet is to tune it for power, and then add a G2 cammed throttle, fly wheel weight, or taller gearing to mellow the beast.

I've been testing a ton of jetting specs lately, and when combining the Yamaha N3xx needles with a #8 slide makes for very nice and smooth power from bottom to top. When you combine that #8 slide with the Suzuki NExx needles the power becomes super responsive off the bottom and into the middle. It may be a bit to responsive for an offroad bike. The best happy medium seemed to be using a Kawasaki N3xx needle with a #7 slide. Kawasaki's N3xx needles have a leaner 1st taper than Suzukis's NExx needles , but tapers 2 and 3 are exactly the same.

 

[liv2day]

Yes, I'm taking 2 of my boys up for the fun run on Saturday of the teepee. I have to work on Sunday. We'll have to hook up.

That's frickin' awesome man! We're going to be camped at the "far end" of the campground - past the area where all the toy haulers park (directly across from the kids practice loop) and on the creek. Edgy and his crew from the OMRA forum will be camped close too - we have a big group for the weekend

My guess is you won't have a problem finding us - we'll have 3 GGs up there, two of which are Six Days 200 versions

Back on the jetting side - that's great to hear about the 250. I was seriously concerned when I first rode his 250. That type of grunt would be awesome if you were log hopping all day...not so great for trying to navigate tight single track with giant trees on either side...LOL.

 

[liv2day]

I believe he's ordered one of each. Better to try a given setting and know where you stand with it than never try and never know..

I only ordered the Yami needle to start - spending someone else's $$

rover...why didn't you add some input before this...LOL.

Given the success Russ' brother had with the CCK needle, I might suggest that way if the hit is still too hard with the Yami needle. I have no clue what the engine/carb differences are between the '03 and '09 - anyone have an idea? If it's apples to apples, then it's definitely worth giving that combo a try since we ride similar areas.

MJC - have you done any testing with the #7 slide and a Yami N3XX needle?

I'll report back when I'm able to mess with it this coming weekend. It won't be a great test as riding on our gravel road doesn't quite compare to the woods (lol), but at least it'll help.

 

[MJC]

Given the success Russ' brother had with the CCK needle, I might suggest that way if the hit is still too hard with the Yami needle.

MJC - have you done any testing with the #7 slide and a Yami N3XX needle?

.

Sure I have used a Yamaha's N3xx needles with the #7 slide. They do as most have mentioned. They have a pretty hard hit when transitioning into the midrange when compared to the Suzuki needles. The Kawasaki N3xx needles are kind of in between the hard hitting Yamaha needles and the smooth Suzuki needles. They have really good response down low. All of this is with a #7 slide. Things change when using a #8 slide.

I have also tried that CCK needle you mention above, and it is better than the stock jetting setup, and probably feels like the bike runs great. That is until you use some of the needles I mentioned or even the CEx series of single taper needles. Not to mention how much fuel the bike will use when using the CCK needle.

 

[liv2day]

The Kawasaki N3xx needles are kind of in between the hard hitting Yamaha needles and the smooth Suzuki needles. They have really good response down low. All of this is with a #7 slide.

Given this is my brother-in-law's first bike, I think smoother is going to be much better than a hit -even if it's gentler than the current N1EF needle in the bike. Based on that, I probably should have ordered the Zuk needle

Any input on which will give the most linear (ie smoothest) transition? Would the NEDG needle be the best or is there a different one in that series?

I can pick up the CCK needle for $6ish, so that's a no-brainer for testing too.

 

[firffighter]

I've always had good luck with JD kits as well. I think they are pretty close. You get a smooth needle and aggressive needle with his kits.


If you don't mind the trial and error I think you can get spot on. Just takes patience.

I've tried Suzuki needles on my ktm and they work good. I've just found I can dial in and fine tune with Sudco needles for pretty cheap.

But, my bikes are a bit older ('04 and older).

We'll come look you up Brad. Maybe we could park over there for the day. We're coming up that morning and leaving after the Saturday event. Yellow gasser, Kx100 and kx85 for the boys.

Maybe edgy can sell us a KDX for my 15 year old whose about ready to move up to a full size bike

 

[HRRacing]

I'm the firfighter brother. Actually running 178 main, not 170. I swear by the CCK. Can lug all day in low gears like a XR600. Still has plenty of get-up-and-go when you want it with no wicked hit. Very manageable power delivery. I also have a 52T rear sprocket that was already on bike. I'm sure this helps too. Did the RB head mod this year. Now even better. More crisp and runs "cleaner". Plug nice color with very little spooge. Needle is cheaper than throttle cams, flywheel weights, and other expensive ad-ons. Makes the bike very fun and easy to ride.