'09 EC250 Jetting - Baseline help?
- Thread starter liv2day
- Start date
The reason I ask is that you will probably find things will work better if you back off the idle - go up on the pilot to a 42 or 45.... I would start at 2 1/2 to 2 3/4 on air screw.
You will find that your idle mixture screw will have more "effect" if you do this. Or just pop for RBs carb mod... If your bike has some time on it you may want to have rob replace the nozzle on the carb (the orifice the needle fits into) - they become oval in shape over time and it becomes harder to jet along the way...
Pick up non-ethanol fuel if you haven't already - pure-gas.org to look up a station here in Oregon. I buy mine either at laurel valley store or in Lake Oswego... I have a portland address but closer to beaverton...
What mixture ratio on the fuel/oil?
thanks,
jeff
p.s. I live in oregon and need to go riding with you...
You will find that your idle mixture screw will have more "effect" if you do this. Or just pop for RBs carb mod... If your bike has some time on it you may want to have rob replace the nozzle on the carb (the orifice the needle fits into) - they become oval in shape over time and it becomes harder to jet along the way...
Pick up non-ethanol fuel if you haven't already - pure-gas.org to look up a station here in Oregon. I buy mine either at laurel valley store or in Lake Oswego... I have a portland address but closer to beaverton...
What mixture ratio on the fuel/oil?
thanks,
jeff
p.s. I live in oregon and need to go riding with you...
liv2day
Platinum Level Site Supporter
Ok, I'm a newb on the jetting stuff, but I thought that once you moved beyond 2.5 turns on the a/s that the theory was you were too lean on the PJ and should go up one? Or maybe it's a moot point if you throw a 40 PJ in and then have the a/s at 1.25 to 1.5 turns?
I ordered the CCK needle too and plan to throw that in the bike when we're up at McCubbins next weekend - or actually walk my brother-in-law doing so...lol. It'll be interesting to test the Yami needle, have him ride that, then test the CCK needle and see the difference.
And Jeff - if you're not busy the last weekend of May, you'll find a group of GGs hanging around - firffighter will be there Saturday and I'll be there from Thursday (hopefully) through Sunday. Definitely Friday through Sunday for me - still trying to work out the details on departing Thurs.
Anyway, back to the jetting stuff
Thanks for the info. After checking my GasGas maintenance log, I was wrong. I'm running a 40 pilot. And yes, I always use non-ethanol fuel.
Remember, this jetting/needle works for me through trial and error. I am by no means an expert. Dirt bike guys can go on forever about jetting. But I did get starting point from this site. There's good info out there. Just fine tune to your liking. Again, I went from a stalling in every corner and obstacle, wicked hit, motocross like throttle to a smooth trials like feel with a $7 needle. It really surprised me. Ron Black from RB Designs even confirmed it for me. He says a needle can reveal the character of a 2-stroke.
Would like to get together and ride. That'd be nice to get together with other GasGas riders. Can't now. Awaiting parts after last Fridays ride. Apparently my right side radiator and shroud don't like trees. Who knew?
Someone should start an Oregon GasGas meet-n-greet ride. Mccubbins would be a cool place to camp/ride for that.
Remember, this jetting/needle works for me through trial and error. I am by no means an expert. Dirt bike guys can go on forever about jetting. But I did get starting point from this site. There's good info out there. Just fine tune to your liking. Again, I went from a stalling in every corner and obstacle, wicked hit, motocross like throttle to a smooth trials like feel with a $7 needle. It really surprised me. Ron Black from RB Designs even confirmed it for me. He says a needle can reveal the character of a 2-stroke.
Would like to get together and ride. That'd be nice to get together with other GasGas riders. Can't now. Awaiting parts after last Fridays ride. Apparently my right side radiator and shroud don't like trees. Who knew?
Someone should start an Oregon GasGas meet-n-greet ride. Mccubbins would be a cool place to camp/ride for that.
The W and J series are from a 99' KX250 and the H is from a 97' KX250. The "w" is 1/2 clip position richer the the "y". I start out with the same pilot and main that I would use with the Suzuki NExx needles. The #8 slide makes the Suzuki NExx needles super responsive, while mellowing out Yamaha's N3xx needles.
99' KX250 http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Kawasaki/Motorcycle/1999/KX250-L1 KX250/CARBURETOR/parts.html
97' KX250
http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Kawasaki/Motorcycle/1997/KX250-K4+KX250/CARBURETOR/parts.html
liv2day
Platinum Level Site Supporter
So the N3EG needle showed up and I put that in the bike to test. Started off in the #3 clip and ran her up and down our road. Not too bad, but I could tell it was a little rich on the transition from 1/4 throttle on.
Back to the garage and swap to #2; back out to test and that's the ticket. She still hits like a scalded dog - but it's not as bad as the N1EF needle that was in the bike. I could keep the front wheel on the ground and the roll on was much smoother comparatively speaking.
The CCK needle showed up yesterday and I haven't had a chance to test it yet - hoping to throw that in tomorrow and test the same settings that HRR has on his 250.
We'll see...have tomorrow to get it sorted better as we're all heading to the hills to ride next weekend
Back to the garage and swap to #2; back out to test and that's the ticket. She still hits like a scalded dog - but it's not as bad as the N1EF needle that was in the bike. I could keep the front wheel on the ground and the roll on was much smoother comparatively speaking.
The CCK needle showed up yesterday and I haven't had a chance to test it yet - hoping to throw that in tomorrow and test the same settings that HRR has on his 250.
We'll see...have tomorrow to get it sorted better as we're all heading to the hills to ride next weekend
liv2day
Platinum Level Site Supporter
Put the CCK needle in @ #2 and it's a big step forward from the N3EG needle - not as hard a hit and the power is more manageable. The front end still paws for the sky if you get heavy handed, but it's not nearly as bad as it was with the N1EF and still better than the N3EG.
I also played with the idle screw and a/s settings and ended up with the a/s at 2.25 turns out. I think there's still some fine tuning to do there, but ran out of time.
This bike has the turbine core silencer and I was surprised to see a decent amount of drool coming out of the pipe after these short tests. Any ideas there? It doesn't feel too rich off the bottom, though given the a/s setting, I could drop a 38 PJ in (right?). It also has a slightly richer MJ if comparing to HRR's settings - could this be the source? I know we don't jet for spooge, but I'm interested in hearing potential causes
I also thought about testing the NECH I have on hand since I went with the NEDH needle in my wife's 200. MJC or Jake - any thoughts on testing that?
I also played with the idle screw and a/s settings and ended up with the a/s at 2.25 turns out. I think there's still some fine tuning to do there, but ran out of time.
This bike has the turbine core silencer and I was surprised to see a decent amount of drool coming out of the pipe after these short tests. Any ideas there? It doesn't feel too rich off the bottom, though given the a/s setting, I could drop a 38 PJ in (right?). It also has a slightly richer MJ if comparing to HRR's settings - could this be the source? I know we don't jet for spooge, but I'm interested in hearing potential causes
I also thought about testing the NECH I have on hand since I went with the NEDH needle in my wife's 200. MJC or Jake - any thoughts on testing that?
I too get the "spooge drool" with my settings. But one thing that helped a lot this year was the RB head mod. According to Ron, I am burning my fuel more efficiently than before, therefore less spooge. I think a lot has to do with riding style also. When I lug in a taller gear using less RPM, I have more spooge. When I ride shorter gear and more RPM, less spooge. Regardless, my plug looks excellent. Shows no signs of being too rich.
Remember for us NW riders, temp, humidity and altitude can change dramatically at our riding areas. One day you could be riding at the Burn @60 degrees with mist or rain at 2000', then next day be at Hood River @85 degrees with dry east wind at 4000'. I know for me, this has an effect on how my bike runs and idles. Think that's where the head mod comes into play. Also remember a clean power valve makes a big difference too. I've also found my power valve vent on the left side plugged with carbon. It's a very small hole and I used a torch tip cleaner to clean it. Make sure the vent hose isn't plugged either.
Again, this is information I've gotten from others, mostly from this site. I'm not a 2-stroke engineer. Just relaying what's worked for me.
-Rob
Remember for us NW riders, temp, humidity and altitude can change dramatically at our riding areas. One day you could be riding at the Burn @60 degrees with mist or rain at 2000', then next day be at Hood River @85 degrees with dry east wind at 4000'. I know for me, this has an effect on how my bike runs and idles. Think that's where the head mod comes into play. Also remember a clean power valve makes a big difference too. I've also found my power valve vent on the left side plugged with carbon. It's a very small hole and I used a torch tip cleaner to clean it. Make sure the vent hose isn't plugged either.
Again, this is information I've gotten from others, mostly from this site. I'm not a 2-stroke engineer. Just relaying what's worked for me.
-Rob
adriano.ro
New member
NEDW is good for 250,but for 300 pwk 38 ASl witch one (NExx) to put in? I read all posts regarding suzi needles,for someone( 300 pwk 38 ASI) is good J,for another W but ai saw somewhere you say: J,W it lean,witch taper to use J,W,H,G?
Jakobi
Super Moderator
NEDW is good for 250,but for 300 pwk 38 ASl witch one (NExx) to put in? I read all posts regarding suzi needles,for someone( 300 pwk 38 ASI) is good J,for another W but ai saw somewhere you say: J,W it lean,witch taper to use J,W,H,G?
The 250 will always like a little more fuel than the 300, as it doesn't pull as much velocity through the carb throat and pickup.
The AS1 carb (deep bowl, round threaded cap) seems less efficient and always needs richer jetting specifications than the AS2 (shallow bowl, flat cap).. particularly noticeable in the smaller throttle openings.
adriano.ro
New member
Tnx. Jakobi for replay.
So my next needles : NEDJ,NECJ,because W(richer then J) is good for 250.Correct?
So my next needles : NEDJ,NECJ,because W(richer then J) is good for 250.Correct?
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Jakobi
Super Moderator
Too many variations across the world (fuel, temps, altitude, engine setup, riding style, carb model, etc etc etc etc) to specifically say what is best in any given case.
For me, 15 to mid 30C, high humidity year round, sea level to say 1000 meters. 98 RON fuel, 40:1 synthetic lube.
With AS2 short body carb I have found the 250s to like N3EW/NEDW (or half clip variations) depending on power delivery preference, 40'ish pilot, 175-178 main. 300 prefers N3EJ/NEDJ with 40/42 pilot and 170-175 mains.
Friends with AS1 large carb have had bikes run similarly on same rides, same conditions with N3EG needle and 38 pilot, 178-180 main.
Basically, all we can do is give you starting points. The refinement and tuning to your conditions will be a personal matter. Safe option is to always start rich and work back to where you see the torque sign off, then go back to strongest setting.
For me, 15 to mid 30C, high humidity year round, sea level to say 1000 meters. 98 RON fuel, 40:1 synthetic lube.
With AS2 short body carb I have found the 250s to like N3EW/NEDW (or half clip variations) depending on power delivery preference, 40'ish pilot, 175-178 main. 300 prefers N3EJ/NEDJ with 40/42 pilot and 170-175 mains.
Friends with AS1 large carb have had bikes run similarly on same rides, same conditions with N3EG needle and 38 pilot, 178-180 main.
Basically, all we can do is give you starting points. The refinement and tuning to your conditions will be a personal matter. Safe option is to always start rich and work back to where you see the torque sign off, then go back to strongest setting.
adriano.ro
New member
Good! Now I have the basic settings to start. Tanks Jakobi,I learn a tone of information regarding intake and engine from this site. I'm ordering N3XX and NEXX needles,for mx style and hard enduro style.
