2007 US Pricing?
- Thread starter ScottyR
- Start date
GMP
Active member
Click the link to "The Bike Shed", all MSRPs listed there. WOW. '07 EC250 w/Ohlins rear, $7495!!
A bit too much, IMO. I will rethink my plans, especially since there in no DE available.
The price, and lack of the popular DE will not go over big, at least here in the NE where KTMs are very stiff competition.
A bit too much, IMO. I will rethink my plans, especially since there in no DE available.
The price, and lack of the popular DE will not go over big, at least here in the NE where KTMs are very stiff competition.
I paid $5,950.00 for my '03 EC 300 when I bought it [new] from Smackover Motor Sports back in January of 2003.
Now, you're tell me the '07's are selling for $7,495.00!!!
Jeez... Adjusted for America's average rate of inflation, an EC 300 will cost double its current list price in (approximately) 19 years!
Lucky me! I'll be "racing" wheel chairs at a retirement center, by then.
TP
Now, you're tell me the '07's are selling for $7,495.00!!!
Jeez... Adjusted for America's average rate of inflation, an EC 300 will cost double its current list price in (approximately) 19 years!
Lucky me! I'll be "racing" wheel chairs at a retirement center, by then.
TP
MattR
Super Moderator
Does GasGas think that people will actually spend $7500 for a 2T bike? I don't want to hear about the dollar is weak against the euro crap... blah, blah, blah. The 2007 KTM's are going for low to mid $6K. If GG does not compete at this price level, then it is already over before it begins. I can see 4T bikes in the $7k range with the added complexity and part costs. Nothing like building a stronger GG dealer network with a bunch of overpriced bikes for sale.
If the actual selling price is really this high, I'm seriously considering alternative brands for my new 2T bike.
If the actual selling price is really this high, I'm seriously considering alternative brands for my new 2T bike.
For approximately $8,000.00, I can walk out of my local Suzuki/Kawasaki dealer with one heck of a nice sport bike; and, it'll come complete with four times the amount of cylinders, triple the braking, fuel injection, and a "custom" paint job--not to mention a viable warrantee.
How is it, the Japanese are able to offer state-of-the-art sport bikes for a very reasonable price, when compared to a stripped-down dirt bike with plastic fenders--that includes parts and established technologies "borrowed" from other manufacturers' previous R&D?
I'm seeing another color in my riding future!
TP PS: As consumers, the most effective way we have to show our disapproval is to exercise discretion and shop elsewhere.
How is it, the Japanese are able to offer state-of-the-art sport bikes for a very reasonable price, when compared to a stripped-down dirt bike with plastic fenders--that includes parts and established technologies "borrowed" from other manufacturers' previous R&D?
I'm seeing another color in my riding future!
TP PS: As consumers, the most effective way we have to show our disapproval is to exercise discretion and shop elsewhere.
GMP
Active member
Scott,
The DEs are popular here, especially with the fast guys, because they rev a bit quicker with the smaller flywheel, and offer the flexibility of adding weights for varying terrain. For a multi-use enduro/hare scrambles bike this makes sense. The 14 oz weight is very good, and the bike smooth enough that its not a real disadvantage in the slick stuff, IMO. I have both ignitions, and prefer the 2K-2 with a 14 oz for all around use. If I lived in the slop like in WA state, or needed the 75W, then I could see the big ignition being more suitable. Also, we do not need all the Euro street legal stuff, its not DOT anyway and the bike will not go through inspection. A clear MSO that can be registered and titled is fine.
The sales numbers proved it here, most American riders want the DE. The '06s sold fast.
If GG intends to compete, I'm afraid they just shot themselves in the foot.
Sorry, $7495 is too much, especially when its worth $2500 in a few years. If its a Euro/dollar issue then how can MV Agusta/Husqvarna, a similar size Euro factory, crank out '07 WR250s for just over $6K, and the WR is a good bike.
I imagine the parts prices will take a proportional jump as well. Bummer.
The DEs are popular here, especially with the fast guys, because they rev a bit quicker with the smaller flywheel, and offer the flexibility of adding weights for varying terrain. For a multi-use enduro/hare scrambles bike this makes sense. The 14 oz weight is very good, and the bike smooth enough that its not a real disadvantage in the slick stuff, IMO. I have both ignitions, and prefer the 2K-2 with a 14 oz for all around use. If I lived in the slop like in WA state, or needed the 75W, then I could see the big ignition being more suitable. Also, we do not need all the Euro street legal stuff, its not DOT anyway and the bike will not go through inspection. A clear MSO that can be registered and titled is fine.
The sales numbers proved it here, most American riders want the DE. The '06s sold fast.
If GG intends to compete, I'm afraid they just shot themselves in the foot.
Sorry, $7495 is too much, especially when its worth $2500 in a few years. If its a Euro/dollar issue then how can MV Agusta/Husqvarna, a similar size Euro factory, crank out '07 WR250s for just over $6K, and the WR is a good bike.I imagine the parts prices will take a proportional jump as well. Bummer.
tm_enduro
New member
You are seeing the struggle that small mfgs have in global marketing. Where larger mfgs can "subsidize" some markets by charging more where one country has a strong economy and less where there are weaker economies. The USA used to be the cash cow for mfgs (for example a yz125 may have been 25% more $$$ in the USA than Canada). The Japanese and KTM (and Husky) are not making much on the USA market right now (at least compared to historical measures). Also, the Japanese and KTM / Husky are able to offset the cost of 2T's by bringing in a higher margin on 4T models. The Japanese have a further advantage in that they also sell street bikes and quads to bring up margins. From what I understand, there is very little difference is mfg cost for a 80cc mx bike and a 1000cc road bike (say $4,000), yet as we know, the price tag is very different. You do the math.
My beloved handmade TM brand has suffered in the US market the last few years for this reason. The price of the bike reflects the margin needed to make a profit in Italy, regardless of any one country's local economy.
Like it or not, BMG is a marketing company and has done a great job creating the infrastructure needed for Husaberg to become a viable brand to carry (as a dealer) and own in the USA and Canada, I presume they are doing what is needed to make it work. Additionally, they have to do it without having the luxury of selling lots of expensive replacement parts (like the Japanese 4T's that devour engine parts) to generate revenue. If you want viable dealers and a strong parts supply, you gotta pay. Garage saling last years models (like many Husky and GasGas buyers are used to) does very little to fill the coffers. GasGas and Husky have gotten them selves into a bad rut, Husky may survive because the got street legal status on their 4T's and they are selling well. I think if GasGas is to survive and grow (and hopefully get decent resale), they need to show that they are great performing bikes (we know they are), and that parts are available. How much do you want a GasGas, and do you want it to survive?
that's my 2 cents, and then some!
My beloved handmade TM brand has suffered in the US market the last few years for this reason. The price of the bike reflects the margin needed to make a profit in Italy, regardless of any one country's local economy.
Like it or not, BMG is a marketing company and has done a great job creating the infrastructure needed for Husaberg to become a viable brand to carry (as a dealer) and own in the USA and Canada, I presume they are doing what is needed to make it work. Additionally, they have to do it without having the luxury of selling lots of expensive replacement parts (like the Japanese 4T's that devour engine parts) to generate revenue. If you want viable dealers and a strong parts supply, you gotta pay. Garage saling last years models (like many Husky and GasGas buyers are used to) does very little to fill the coffers. GasGas and Husky have gotten them selves into a bad rut, Husky may survive because the got street legal status on their 4T's and they are selling well. I think if GasGas is to survive and grow (and hopefully get decent resale), they need to show that they are great performing bikes (we know they are), and that parts are available. How much do you want a GasGas, and do you want it to survive?
that's my 2 cents, and then some!
eff
Silver Level Site Supporter
Click the link to "The Bike Shed", all MSRPs listed there. WOW. '07 EC250 w/Ohlins rear, $7495!!
A bit too much, IMO. I will rethink my plans, especially since there in no DE available.
The price, and lack of the popular DE will not go over big, at least here in the NE where KTMs are very stiff competition.
I purchased my bike from Brian at The Bike Shed. He was great to deal with. I figured I'd add that plug.
The current pricing is going to be a deal breaker for many. I love my GasGas and would love a new one some day, but not if they are selling that far over market.
GMP
Active member
Yes, but in reality, there is a price threshold that few will cross. If the goal is to survive, and sell a small number of hand made bikes per year like TM, then I could see it. You just can't expect to grow if the market is a small population of customers that can afford/justify/and benefit from a superior bike. The question is what is the goal? Lets face it, all bikes today are very good, its more of a preference thing.
tm_enduro
New member
GMP. I know I'm stirring up a hornets nest here, but I've seen abad trend for GasGas and Husky over the last few years. Many folks wait until fall and buy a leftover at cost, further devaluing the brand. I know of many folks that wait for Husky to blowout leftover previous year models, what is had done is made no one want to buy a current 2T or a 4T mx bike, knowing that it will be sold as a leftover for less than what you want for your 1 year old bike. This does nothing for new bike sales and does not encourage a dealer to order new bikes or a parts package.
Truthfully, it takes a lot to build a dealer network, and BMG must be looking at how many 2T's they can realistically expect to sell, and are adjusting the price accordingly. It is worth noting that the Canadian importer has raised prices as well, so it may be something coming from Spain. This may be a trend that we are stuck with, small specialty brands being forced to raise prices. Before buying my most recent Husaberg (not a cheap bike either) I was thinking seriously about a $7,000 TM 125e or a $9,000 TM 450e.
Truthfully, it takes a lot to build a dealer network, and BMG must be looking at how many 2T's they can realistically expect to sell, and are adjusting the price accordingly. It is worth noting that the Canadian importer has raised prices as well, so it may be something coming from Spain. This may be a trend that we are stuck with, small specialty brands being forced to raise prices. Before buying my most recent Husaberg (not a cheap bike either) I was thinking seriously about a $7,000 TM 125e or a $9,000 TM 450e.
I will cut BMG a bit of slack as unlike KTM NA, who is owned by the mothership in Austria, BMG is forced to buy the bikes directly from GG Spain at a Distributor price in Euros, not US $.
They are forced to deal with the crappy exchange rates and receive no price subsidizing like KTM Austria gives to the NA Distributor. They need to make a 10-15% margin on each bike in order to keep their lights on. If they cant make that much money on them, they dont bother importing them, plain and simple.
Am I bummed by the pricing? You bet! But deep down I do understand the predicament that BMG is in.
They are forced to deal with the crappy exchange rates and receive no price subsidizing like KTM Austria gives to the NA Distributor. They need to make a 10-15% margin on each bike in order to keep their lights on. If they cant make that much money on them, they dont bother importing them, plain and simple.
Am I bummed by the pricing? You bet! But deep down I do understand the predicament that BMG is in.
Excellent analysis of the market and the competitive practices.
It comes down to a personal decision - how much is a GasGas (or any brand) worth to you?
MattR
Super Moderator
Yes GG is a nice bike, but all consumers have a benefit/cost ratio that they live by... even if they know it or not. Those who buy bikes at end of the year justify their purchase by improving this ratio. They see less benefits or advantages with the new model year to justify a higher asking price. Conversely, if the new model year makes this ratio the same or better, then people will make the purchase. That being said, I love GG bikes but I will not make a purchase for the sole purpose of "their survival". Since I'm putting out the cash... not them, I will only ride a bike that meets my needs.
The bike industry is not unique... smaller manufacturers in other industries also have a harder time than larger entities. A big portion of their profit margins are based on their internal cost saving measures. All companies must strive to reduce their internal expenses and become more lean. Look at the auto industry... the steel prices, currency exchanges, and health care are through-the-roof and sales are down due to high gas prices. Companies are forced to reduce costs "internally" to maintain their existing profit margins (by reducing manufacturing variances, employee layoffs, spending constraints, pension/healthcare reductions, etc.). Most companies do not have the luxury of jacking up their selling prices and passing their "pains" onto their consumers.
If GasGas insists on over-charging consumers for their products, then good luck keeping the ship afloat. Sorry, I will step off my soapbox now.
It's getting a little emotional and some of it isn't backed by hard facts...
A few points....
1. Reality bites - the dollar is low and we have to pay more for european products. KTM has raised their retail prices as well. A ktm 300 - msrp is $6900 and a ktm450 exc is $8k.
2. A GasGas 300 with zoke fork and sachs rear shock - MSRP is $7255 (ktm retail is $6900). Add an ohlins rear shock and it is $7595.00. So a gasgas ec300 with sachs rear is $300 more than a ktm (retail to retail). What's the big deal there?
The sachs shock is a good shock - has a steel body, just like the ohlins (not an aluminum body like a showa or kyb). It has a beefy 50mm piston and Les valves them every other day to work well for the husky 4 strokes... The ohlins is "technically better" - but if I was looking at a bike on a showroom floor and it had the sachs on it - I would consider the sachs rear shock (versus waiting for a ohlins equipped model to be shipped).
3. DE versus EC. We have been through this before. BMG wants to stock bikes in their warehouse - you order a bike at your dealer and receive it within a week. Which one should they stock? (and adding the suspension variants increases the number of variants). I am sure they will get it worked out at the dealer show how best to handle it - they get feedback from the northwest guys and states where a plate can be easily obtained that ECs are best and "GNCC racer states" prefer the DE. I am sure you can special order a DE (they make a Seb Guillaume Replica for the French Market). Give them some time.
jeff
A few points....
1. Reality bites - the dollar is low and we have to pay more for european products. KTM has raised their retail prices as well. A ktm 300 - msrp is $6900 and a ktm450 exc is $8k.
2. A GasGas 300 with zoke fork and sachs rear shock - MSRP is $7255 (ktm retail is $6900). Add an ohlins rear shock and it is $7595.00. So a gasgas ec300 with sachs rear is $300 more than a ktm (retail to retail). What's the big deal there?
The sachs shock is a good shock - has a steel body, just like the ohlins (not an aluminum body like a showa or kyb). It has a beefy 50mm piston and Les valves them every other day to work well for the husky 4 strokes... The ohlins is "technically better" - but if I was looking at a bike on a showroom floor and it had the sachs on it - I would consider the sachs rear shock (versus waiting for a ohlins equipped model to be shipped).
3. DE versus EC. We have been through this before. BMG wants to stock bikes in their warehouse - you order a bike at your dealer and receive it within a week. Which one should they stock? (and adding the suspension variants increases the number of variants). I am sure they will get it worked out at the dealer show how best to handle it - they get feedback from the northwest guys and states where a plate can be easily obtained that ECs are best and "GNCC racer states" prefer the DE. I am sure you can special order a DE (they make a Seb Guillaume Replica for the French Market). Give them some time.
jeff
GMP
Active member
The consumer doesn't care about why he is quoted a 11% increase. He's not investing in a company, he's buying a bike, a luxury, a toy. All he cares about is that the company exists so he can get parts and sell the bike down the road a few years. Wasn't part of the reason GG took distribution over in '02/'03 to reduce prices and get more people on the bikes? I know they were cheaper, I paid less for my '03 than for my '00! Something obviously went wrong.
Well, it will all shake out over the winter/spring bike shopping season. I wouldn't expect a stellar sales year if I was GasGas.
Well, it will all shake out over the winter/spring bike shopping season. I wouldn't expect a stellar sales year if I was GasGas.
Actually, a 2007 KTM 300XC-W is $6698, not $6900 so an 07 EC300 with Ohlins is almost $1K more money. I cant see many guys spending that much more for the Gasser.
If I was BMG, I wouldnt bother bringing in any 07s with an Ohlins shock to try and keep the price down.
As a CDN Dealer, I will not be ordering any 07s with the Ohlins shock.
If I was BMG, I wouldnt bother bringing in any 07s with an Ohlins shock to try and keep the price down.
As a CDN Dealer, I will not be ordering any 07s with the Ohlins shock.
