2007 US Pricing?
- Thread starter ScottyR
- Start date
IMO, BMG needs to figure out how they can get the "base model" EC300 down to $6999 US. I think that most guys will spend $400 more for the GG over a KTM. I cant see them changing the prices now, but we wouldnt be having this conversation if they were $6999.
BMG may have to re-think some pricing strategies after their dealer meetings next week. If enough dealers complain and refuse to order many bikes, because of pricing, then and only then, will pricing be revamped.
Again, you guys in the US have it good. I am trying my hardest to convince the CDN Dist to price the 07 EC250 for $7999 CDN, not the $8399 he wants to price it at.
What really blew me away was the base model FSE 450 for $8995 and $9995 for the Ohlins. I cant see them selling any of those next year. I would go with a Berg or Husky instead for a lot less $$.
BMG may have to re-think some pricing strategies after their dealer meetings next week. If enough dealers complain and refuse to order many bikes, because of pricing, then and only then, will pricing be revamped.
Again, you guys in the US have it good. I am trying my hardest to convince the CDN Dist to price the 07 EC250 for $7999 CDN, not the $8399 he wants to price it at.
What really blew me away was the base model FSE 450 for $8995 and $9995 for the Ohlins. I cant see them selling any of those next year. I would go with a Berg or Husky instead for a lot less $$.
I stand corrected - I previously stated a ktm 300 was $6900 - it is $6700 (rounding up $2). So the MSRP price difference between a KTM and a "standard" gasgas is $500.00 (not 300.00).
jeff
REVERUP
Gold Level Site Supporter
I may be in the minoriety here, but I am willing to pay more for a GAS GAS just so I don't have to ride an orange woods bike like the majoriety or woods racers. ITS WORTH IT! My bike never breaks through serious abuse. Yet many club members friends KTM's are tore apart consistantly on the garage work bench.To me the reliability the way the bike fits me and the fact that it is different than most others machines makes it worth the extra cost. My dealer is very good and knocks off set up charges ect.. to help keep these prices competitive. Sure your gonna pay more, but you get what you pay for. If you want an exotic your gonna pay!
REVERUP
Gold Level Site Supporter
And my point is that's fine by me, cause the majoriety already don't! Sure I would rather spend the money somewhere else, but you cant expect to get an exotic for a mass produced price. I will continue to ride and race an exotic for a few hundred dollars more a season as long as it works for me! I could easily put that much extra $ into something common to make it work for me. But why would I, when I like to be different!
GMP is right. The majority won't even consider the additional cost; they won't be able to conceptionalize the difference. This is possibly where Gas Gas and the new distributer are going to suffer.
The larger market will refuse to consider the brand and turn elsewhere, thus never experiencing the Gas Gas difference. They'll only view it as some over-priced exotic that's possibly hard to get parts for.
The '02/'03 lower pricing strategy...
My '03 came with full FMF exhaust, D.I.D Type U rims, a nickle plated frame and WP forks with Ohlins rear. How is it, the manufacturer was able to offer "more" bike at a lower price?
Like it or not, when it comes time for resale, name-brand accessories and components make a positive impression. The seller may not get much more in resale per the aftermarket found on the bike, but then again, it sure makes for a much more attractive deal--from the buyer's point of view.
TP
MSRP prices for the 2002's with the prior distributor were very high, GGNA had a BIG markup on the bikes. Why do you think GG tried to put in an in house distributor and go thru the lawsuits, etc. with GGNA? Spain didn't drop the price for the '03's, they just reduced the markup by trying to deal them direct. That failed, so they brought in BMG. As far as the '07's std. equipment, I haven't heard definitively that they won't have Ohlin's shocks or FMF pipes here in the states. I don't miss the low quality nickle plating, I think the painted frames are more corrosion resistant, and you can touch them up if needed. I wouldn't miss the Ohlins shock personally, as I have heard from 2 respected suspension tuners that you never know what valving will be in an Ohlins. My buddy's had an SX stack in his 200XC! Sachs are a good quality shock that don't have this quality control variance.
I'm going to wait and see what comes out of the dealers meeting. I'm really surprised at the reaction from some on here. BMG is new, they do know the market and what KTM's and Japanese bikes sell for, not just MSRP.
It depends on what Spain want's to give them to work with. There is a new management group running the show after the new factory (2001) increased the company's debt load. If they will listen to BMG, that's good. If they are just a bunch of money grubbing VC's, that's bad.
GG isn't going to grow much against KTM doing the same thing they are doing, they are too big and powerful now. I think it would be a logistical challenge, but GG/BMG may increase sales by selling a fitment kit to dealers so you can pick up a bike that already has the right size seat, bars and spring rates for you. That would be a definite value add, as how many of us have spent $200-400 on getting those basic items? Plus it is a timesaver not to track that stuff down. The concept of race ready would be elevated to a new level with this approach.
Back in the 70's, there was a saying, "I'd rather have a sister in a whorehouse than a brother on a Honda." I'll pay more to ride something different, but I'm not convinced that these prices discussed will be the "street" price.
MattR
Super Moderator
I think the opinions here from "dedicated" GG riders is exactly what BMG and Corporate need to here. If the dedicated riders feel the price is too high, then they have little chance to gain new buyers. Hopefully, the dealer meeting will clear up some of the issues. So I won't rant too much until they can share their side of the story.
From a basic market standpoint, GasGas needs to list MSRP prices at or below their #1 competitor (KTM). This base model needs to include all of the performance features of the prior year and along with a few new product differentiators. I doubt the Sachs rear shock is a product improvement over last years Ohlins rear shock. Is it easier to service (such as having a schrader valve for gas charging)? Does it have more adjustable tuning features (such as high/low speed compression)? and so forth... If there is no product improvement, then the base model needs to be below KTM's MSRP... not $500 above.
Granted, the newer features like seat attachment, air filter quick change, and better subframe are product differentiators from the prior year models. At most, these features could warrant a $100 total price increase. Compared to GG's competition, these features are not new so a large price increase is not justified.
Hawkeye made a good point... GasGas could offer buyers special rider fit kits or even a standard guard package (like skid plate, exhaust pipe, and bark busters). If the bikes were offered with this package for $6999, there would be more new buyers considering a GG bike instead of other brands. Or offer the bikes with both Ohlins front and rear at the $6999 price level. The point is, give the buyers a good reason to pay more money.
Hopefully, after the dealers meeting, the folks can explain all of GG's product differentiators for the new year. As a dedicated GG rider, if the price does not justify these product differentiators... there will be one less GG owner in the new year.
From a basic market standpoint, GasGas needs to list MSRP prices at or below their #1 competitor (KTM). This base model needs to include all of the performance features of the prior year and along with a few new product differentiators. I doubt the Sachs rear shock is a product improvement over last years Ohlins rear shock. Is it easier to service (such as having a schrader valve for gas charging)? Does it have more adjustable tuning features (such as high/low speed compression)? and so forth... If there is no product improvement, then the base model needs to be below KTM's MSRP... not $500 above.
Granted, the newer features like seat attachment, air filter quick change, and better subframe are product differentiators from the prior year models. At most, these features could warrant a $100 total price increase. Compared to GG's competition, these features are not new so a large price increase is not justified.
Hawkeye made a good point... GasGas could offer buyers special rider fit kits or even a standard guard package (like skid plate, exhaust pipe, and bark busters). If the bikes were offered with this package for $6999, there would be more new buyers considering a GG bike instead of other brands. Or offer the bikes with both Ohlins front and rear at the $6999 price level. The point is, give the buyers a good reason to pay more money.
Hopefully, after the dealers meeting, the folks can explain all of GG's product differentiators for the new year. As a dedicated GG rider, if the price does not justify these product differentiators... there will be one less GG owner in the new year.
GMP
Active member
reverup,
You don't have to preach to us about the GGs superior points, we all know that. Most of us have owned them for a few years. I'm personally heavily invested with spares and accessories. Re-read the discussion, the issue is the effect of the prices on NEW customers. Matt and TP are on the same page as well. If a customer that has been on GGs for 5 years and knows the bikes has to consider switching brands for financial reasons, how can you expect a new customer to jump from another brand to a GG at close to $1K more?
One of the main advantages of these bikes is their durability and the ability to keep them for a few years in top condition. The diehards like us don't buy new bikes every year. If Les at LTR depended on GasGas accessories alone for his business, and not his excellent suspension work on all brands, he would be done.
What I could see happening is slow sales until late season when the distributor is forced to drop prices.
As far as fitment kits and adding value, not a bad idea. Better yet is (for the US at least) drop all the Euro street crap to save money, like KTM. You can still have a large 2K-3 ignition if desired without a mile of wire and all the switches that most will not use anyway. Leave it on the FSE, but on a 2-stroke why bother. Offer it as a kit to those that want it. These are serious bikes and to most riders bar space is a premium.
What I want to know next, and this affects us all new bike plans or not, is parts prices. Do the parts prices track the bike prices at +11%? Up to now GG parts have been very reasonable.
You don't have to preach to us about the GGs superior points, we all know that. Most of us have owned them for a few years. I'm personally heavily invested with spares and accessories. Re-read the discussion, the issue is the effect of the prices on NEW customers. Matt and TP are on the same page as well. If a customer that has been on GGs for 5 years and knows the bikes has to consider switching brands for financial reasons, how can you expect a new customer to jump from another brand to a GG at close to $1K more?
One of the main advantages of these bikes is their durability and the ability to keep them for a few years in top condition. The diehards like us don't buy new bikes every year. If Les at LTR depended on GasGas accessories alone for his business, and not his excellent suspension work on all brands, he would be done.
What I could see happening is slow sales until late season when the distributor is forced to drop prices.
As far as fitment kits and adding value, not a bad idea. Better yet is (for the US at least) drop all the Euro street crap to save money, like KTM. You can still have a large 2K-3 ignition if desired without a mile of wire and all the switches that most will not use anyway. Leave it on the FSE, but on a 2-stroke why bother. Offer it as a kit to those that want it. These are serious bikes and to most riders bar space is a premium.
What I want to know next, and this affects us all new bike plans or not, is parts prices. Do the parts prices track the bike prices at +11%? Up to now GG parts have been very reasonable.
tm_enduro
New member
From the perspctive of someone setting on the outside (me), I must share that I have liked GasGas bikes for years, but have stayed with other brands due to parts supply issues. When the local dealer has to stock all the needed parts because the fill rate on parts (needed in a hurry) is very low, the owner misses out on riding. That in my opinion is what has kept GasGas from growing, and kept resale low, AND kept many people like myself and others that I know from buying GasGas.
I cannot comment on why the '07s are so much higher in price, I don't know the cause. I can't agree though that cheap prices result in lots of sales, look at Husky, their wr125 and wr250 are the bargain of the century, even at full retail, yet sales languish.
I would hate to see GasGas suffer the same demise as TM in the USA. TM has always had a great parts supply fill rate, boasting that every part needed for any model of TM was in stock in the USA (well at least until the TM corporate took over US distribution in 2003). TM's main reason for not bringing in bikes has been that 2T sales have plumeted in the USA (especially in Cailfornia) and 2T's were the main TMs sold (the 4T's were basically spoken for by euro distributors).
I am riding a Husaberg now, quality (thanks to Austria) is up, resale has improved, and parts supply is strong. Prices are up as well, but sales are good. People have to to accept extortion prices for 4T's, it may not work with 2T's.
I cannot comment on why the '07s are so much higher in price, I don't know the cause. I can't agree though that cheap prices result in lots of sales, look at Husky, their wr125 and wr250 are the bargain of the century, even at full retail, yet sales languish.
I would hate to see GasGas suffer the same demise as TM in the USA. TM has always had a great parts supply fill rate, boasting that every part needed for any model of TM was in stock in the USA (well at least until the TM corporate took over US distribution in 2003). TM's main reason for not bringing in bikes has been that 2T sales have plumeted in the USA (especially in Cailfornia) and 2T's were the main TMs sold (the 4T's were basically spoken for by euro distributors).
I am riding a Husaberg now, quality (thanks to Austria) is up, resale has improved, and parts supply is strong. Prices are up as well, but sales are good. People have to to accept extortion prices for 4T's, it may not work with 2T's.
GMP
Active member
Husky's resale value is directly related to their turbulent history as of late. Its a confidence thing. Things look good now but who knows?
Honestly GG parts were never a problem. I got everything I needed from Town & Country, Smackover, or RT&T. Never missed a ride. Now, this is mainly attributed to good dealers with regard to stocking parts, not neccessarily good or bad distribution.
Honestly GG parts were never a problem. I got everything I needed from Town & Country, Smackover, or RT&T. Never missed a ride. Now, this is mainly attributed to good dealers with regard to stocking parts, not neccessarily good or bad distribution.
bobr
New member
when i used to sell these bikes my angle was to compare a YZ, RM, or KX and explain, with the base cost of the bike, and turning into a woods bike the Gas-Gas was a better deal and flat out are a better woods bike. an 07 YZ250 is $6,299, that's approx. a $1200 difference in the bikes. if my memory serves me correctly that's about what it was when i was "involved."
i still understand it's going to be a hard sell. i started a test ride program and had great success with it. you've got to let them ride the bikes. i even encouraged them to bring thier current bikes for a "comparo." many of those riders put thier bikes up for sale after that. hopefully the new distributer wiill be on board with helping dealers with test ride units. it worked. good luck to you all.
i still understand it's going to be a hard sell. i started a test ride program and had great success with it. you've got to let them ride the bikes. i even encouraged them to bring thier current bikes for a "comparo." many of those riders put thier bikes up for sale after that. hopefully the new distributer wiill be on board with helping dealers with test ride units. it worked. good luck to you all.
tm_enduro
New member
i still understand it's going to be a hard sell. i started a test ride program and had great success with it. you've got to let them ride the bikes. i even encouraged them to bring thier current bikes for a "comparo." many of those riders put thier bikes up for sale after that. hopefully the new distributer wiill be on board with helping dealers with test ride units. it worked. good luck to you all.
I agree, I saw the same thing, demos are what sold GasGas in my area. Parts supply are what stiffled it.
GMP
Active member
Well, lets hope it all works out. Sorry if this got a bit heated and out of hand. I have had nothing but positive experiences from all the dealers I've delt with and the two previous distributors. Hopefully this will continue. I think the parts issue is something more recent, and will be corrected.
I have never had problems getting parts for my gassers.i deal with go fasters,i also had good luck with jim and gabe at smackover...my jap riding buddies have had a harder time getting the hard parts(FACTORY OEM) than i have..i have replaced cylinders,heads,gaskets..a 250 to 300 conversion..no problems..also you have to remember the 250 and 300 share parts..there were only three parts different on the bikes ..the cylinder,the head,the piston kit..to me that is big savings for a dealer..as far as cost of the bikes..i see it this way..go buy a honda 4 stroke crf250 or 450..race it for 200 hours and see how much you will have spent on the bike keeping it running...i owned a 04 honda 250x and had i kept it i would now be broke..at 10 hours it needed valves,i sold it the new owner in the last two years spent over 2 grand in maintenance..you do the math..any way you slice it owning a 2 stroke is way cheaper than a four stroke..but the trend is moving away from the 2 strokes...honda knows what they are doing..they realize they will sell a lot of engine parts for there bikes..also all my buddies who buy ktm's the first thing they do is spend 200.00 on the rekluse front axle so they can ride the bike..and talk about the money they spend on suspension work..400 to 500 dollars and they still wont work as good as a stock gasser..so if the inital price is your main issue with a gasser take a look at the long haul..the BIG picture so to speak and you just might realize that a gas gas aint such a bad deal after all thanks Ricky
thanks RickyGG prices
I heard from a couple of dealers the MC250 was going to list at $6850, but the Ohlins shock would be another $300. Since the two 05 MC250's I've been able to locate in the US wanted $6250, that's not unreasonable.
the KTM 300xcw lists for something like $6800, but the suspension totally sucks. Front forks bottom for almost no reason and that linkageless rear suspension is a weak idea. All those forces generated make the swingarm have to be a mile long and the pivot inches from the front sprocket, the sprockets rarely line up, and the chain is so loose it slaps around making all kinds of noise
I heard from a couple of dealers the MC250 was going to list at $6850, but the Ohlins shock would be another $300. Since the two 05 MC250's I've been able to locate in the US wanted $6250, that's not unreasonable.
the KTM 300xcw lists for something like $6800, but the suspension totally sucks. Front forks bottom for almost no reason and that linkageless rear suspension is a weak idea. All those forces generated make the swingarm have to be a mile long and the pivot inches from the front sprocket, the sprockets rarely line up, and the chain is so loose it slaps around making all kinds of noise
