2018 300ec starter issues

S

Sky

New member
My 2018 300 ec has starter issues. Tried to start it in gear and killed the battery. Charged and also tried new battery. Tested old starter and its no good. Got a new starter installed and when I hit start button it clicks first and on the second press it ties to crank. Owned this bike for 2 years and no starter issue. Pos and negtive wires were also changed at dealer aslo reflash was done in 2018. Help Im stumped
 
Hi Sky,hate to bring up the 2018 shit starter thread again but I am also stumped & frustrated.Will share my experience & it may help.
Started worked ok when warm until about 80hrs then became hit & miss.Read the threads &
Fitted AS3 bendix cover.
Dis-assembled bendix & lightened the spring.
Heavier Pos. cables from battery to solenoid & solenoid to starter.
New Neg. cable from battery to starter & another battery to frame.
New LiFe 210cca battery.
Started much better & consistent when warmed up.Was happy with it.
At about 120hrs it became inconsistent.Turned over slow like it was under heavy load & not enough power.Put in a new LiFe 210cca battery,welded the bendix to bendix shaft,pinion(part 16) rotates freely but I couldn't get it out to reweld the shaft.Looks ok though.No difference so got a new KTM 410w starter,reversed polarity & installed.Marginally better & really pissed off with it now.Occasionally starts but sounds like it is really labouring.
With plug removed I can hold the button & it spins fast & smooth.
Tested solenoid & it clicks on/off but the battery tests at 13.8v & reads 8.2v at the starter when trying to start.Doesn't sound right? Comments please.
 
gg3 said:
Hi Sky,hate to bring up the 2018 shit starter thread again but I am also stumped & frustrated.Will share my experience & it may help.
Started worked ok when warm until about 80hrs then became hit & miss.Read the threads &
Fitted AS3 bendix cover.
Dis-assembled bendix & lightened the spring.
Heavier Pos. cables from battery to solenoid & solenoid to starter.
New Neg. cable from battery to starter & another battery to frame.
New LiFe 210cca battery.
Started much better & consistent when warmed up.Was happy with it.
At about 120hrs it became inconsistent.Turned over slow like it was under heavy load & not enough power.Put in a new LiFe 210cca battery,welded the bendix to bendix shaft,pinion(part 16) rotates freely but I couldn't get it out to reweld the shaft.Looks ok though.No difference so got a new KTM 410w starter,reversed polarity & installed.Marginally better & really pissed off with it now.Occasionally starts but sounds like it is really labouring.
With plug removed I can hold the button & it spins fast & smooth.
Tested solenoid & it clicks on/off but the battery tests at 13.8v & reads 8.2v at the starter when trying to start.Doesn't sound right? Comments please.
Click to expand...
Hi,yes mine has similar issues. Mine reads 5.82 volts at starter. stumped myself
 
After a few seconds of cranking the negative lead from battery to starter bracket,starts to warm up.I will do some voltage drop tests tonight & report back.
 
After a few seconds of cranking the negative lead from battery to starter bracket,starts to warm up.I will do some voltage drop tests tonight & report back.
 
I've been planning on making a (long) post that delineates all of the starter fixes. gg3, you have done a good job of hitting them and I have done them all, and still "no start". Just a thunk on the second press of the button. But things did work better with the original GG starter - sometimes after warming up it would work, thought starting was always inconsistent.

My contribution to the current thread is this - my dealer believes that the most recently available GG starter does not work as well as the original GG starter (including the other brands that we have to reverse polarity on). This has been my experience also (after frying the original, I've tried a two aftermarket brands and a GG "oem" that had to have the polarity reversed).

So it is possible, Sky, that your new starter is not what the old one was.

I am looking for Rieju to start supplying what I hope will be the "original" starter - and then I will try again.

Part of my desire now is just the challenge of trying to figure out why it doesn't work! There must be something that can be done - why problems on this bike and not that one??!

So I feel the pain.

And low voltage at the starter indicates something amiss. Sorry I do not know if a "faulty" starter can sap that voltage, or if it is further back in the electrical system. I suppose if you unhook the positive cable from the starter and measure again you could verify that the proper voltage is (or is not) getting clear down to the starter.

Let's keep trying to figure this thing out!

Jeff
 
farmerj said:
I've been planning on making a (long) post that delineates all of the starter fixes. gg3, you have done a good job of hitting them and I have done them all, and still "no start". Just a thunk on the second press of the button. But things did work better with the original GG starter - sometimes after warming up it would work, thought starting was always inconsistent.

My contribution to the current thread is this - my dealer believes that the most recently available GG starter does not work as well as the original GG starter (including the other brands that we have to reverse polarity on). This has been my experience also (after frying the original, I've tried a two aftermarket brands and a GG "oem" that had to have the polarity reversed).

So it is possible, Sky, that your new starter is not what the old one was.

I am looking for Rieju to start supplying what I hope will be the "original" starter - and then I will try again.

Part of my desire now is just the challenge of trying to figure out why it doesn't work! There must be something that can be done - why problems on this bike and not that one??!

So I feel the pain.

And low voltage at the starter indicates something amiss. Sorry I do not know if a "faulty" starter can sap that voltage, or if it is further back in the electrical system. I suppose if you unhook the positive cable from the starter and measure again you could verify that the proper voltage is (or is not) getting clear down to the starter.

Let's keep trying to figure this thing out!

Jeff
Click to expand...
Maybe dang nab it
 
yes Jeff, also finding the challenge a bit obsessive now.Probably because the rest of the bike is so damn good.
Update-Got curious with the starter reverse polarity.Loosened the nuts,put it in the vice & put some power through it.While running I rotated the 'barrel' slowly & found the speed increased at a certain point.So fixed it there.
Tested relay voltage. I'm loosing about 3.5v over the relay,so ordering a new one tomorrow.
Next bypassed the relay with a positive cable battery to starter direct.Nearly welded the cable to it & fk me it started!!
I can see the electrical engineers reading this shaking their heads.
 
Makes sense that there is an optimal position with the casing on the starter. Maybe you've cracked the code on why they are not all equal
 
Gez said:
Makes sense that there is an optimal position with the casing on the starter. Maybe you've cracked the code on why they are not all equal
Click to expand...

I think I will try that too!

Sky, since your bike was starting well before installing the new starter, maybe this is something for you to look at as well.
 
gg3 - Sounds like your issue will be fixed with the new relay. That would be good news!

welded the bendix to bendix shaft, pinion (part 16) rotates freely but I couldn't get it out to reweld the shaft.

If you have trouble in the future that pinion shaft might be something to check. I got mine out by applying heat (from a heat gun), then tapping on a hard surface.

You've probably seen the following video (from MotoCenter, Mesa AZ).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXXjFw9ghDE

My bike sounds just like that - click, thunk, tries to turn over but can't. I did weld the pinion gear to the shaft but that didn't solve the problem for me.

It does leave me with the theory that something in the starter drive system binds when power & torque is applied to it. Like your bike, without the spark plug installed it turns over just fine!

I'm going to see if I can find someone with a good starting bike who will swap starter cases with me for a minute and see if that isolates the problem.

Jeff
 
I'm not overly hopeful with the solenoid.For peace of mind I bypassed the relay again & this time got the same fail result as in the video-clunk/buzz/clunk.I think the starter system is a series of failing & mis-aligning parts.As you fix one ,it stresses another.After watching the video I am thinking the pinion may be one of those parts.Does the pinion pull out with the bearing?
 
Hey guys my mate had this same issue on his 2018 ec300 sixdays and thought it was the starter but ended up getting a new switch cluster (starter switch) and that fixed it (after trying everything else for around 4 months) I have just done my cluster as well and elec start isnt working. Will be swapping out the ec cluster for an xc ignition to prevent this in the future. Hope that helps !
 
Thanks,all input most welcome!
Mine is an XC300 & I tried bypassing the button & kill switch to be sure.Worth eliminating on the EC for sure.
 
farmerj said:
gg3 - Sounds like your issue will be fixed with the new relay. That would be good news!

welded the bendix to bendix shaft, pinion (part 16) rotates freely but I couldn't get it out to reweld the shaft.

If you have trouble in the future that pinion shaft might be something to check. I got mine out by applying heat (from a heat gun), then tapping on a hard surface.

You've probably seen the following video (from MotoCenter, Mesa AZ).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXXjFw9ghDE

My bike sounds just like that - click, thunk, tries to turn over but can't. I did weld the pinion gear to the shaft but that didn't solve the problem for me.

It does leave me with the theory that something in the starter drive system binds when power & torque is applied to it. Like your bike, without the spark plug installed it turns over just fine!

I'm going to see if I can find someone with a good starting bike who will swap starter cases with me for a minute and see if that isolates the problem.

Jeff
Click to expand...
I too just ordered a new relay . Waiting for part to get here
 
gg3 said:
I'm not overly hopeful with the solenoid.For peace of mind I bypassed the relay again & this time got the same fail result as in the video-clunk/buzz/clunk. I think the starter system is a series of failing & mis-aligning parts. As you fix one, it stresses another.
Click to expand...

I like your phrase "mis-aligning".

While I understand that different people have found success with other fixes - cable upgrade, bigger battery, loose connections, bendix cover, pinion gear welded, frozen bearings, etc. - some of us have done all those things and still have problems.

It seems to me that something must be binding and mis-aligning in the starter case. I have wondered if tolerances on the early units were off, and the shaft bores don't quite line up, or are too tight or too loose.

Either that, or some engines are just harder to turn over for some internal reason! Do we just have tighter engines, maybe with higher compression?

It's interesting that starting problems are rare with the 2019s. I understand that they changed the battery and ignition system - that solves the "crank but no spark" issue. Does anyone know if anything in the starter case changed? (I think not...but then why do the 2019s turn over better?)

Has anyone swapped a 2019 starter case onto a hard-starting 2018 to see if there is any difference?

I like this bike so much that I continue to believe it can be made to e-start somehow :)

Jeff
 
thanks for pinion removal link.Will try it in the weekend.
My starter had become hit & miss before I did the top end.It gave up completely shortly after.
Is this normal-after trying to start it ,I removed the Bendix cover & on sliding the bendix out heard & felt it retract.So it was stuck engaged in the ring gear?Tried it several times with same result.
Sorry Sky,Solenoid didn't fix it.Potential problem eliminated though.
 
Been busy so haven't made much progress.Had the starter electrical system checked by an auto electrician.So I can confirm the battery,cables,solenoid & earths are all good.The after market 410w KTM starter that I reversed may be suspect.I can not get pinion shaft parts 16/17 out,but it spins freely & I marked the shaft & gears to check slippage but is all good.So I have been unlucky & got a dodgy starter OR its the dreaded Bendix! Bendix has been welded,weight spring & return spring stretched for a lighter action.It has good full engagement into the ring gear.Easily turns it over with the plug out.
Think I will get another starter & try to get a CH80 bendix & do the converstion. Getting parts in NZ can take ages at the moment.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

V
GasGas 2018 E-Start vs new Rieju E-Start
Replies
6
Views
184
webmaster
webmaster
J
E start gear & headlight
2
Replies
20
Views
4K
Neil E.
N
Niall-griffiths
2018 battery / wiring
Replies
9
Views
5K
5valve
5
M
2018 EC300 no spark?
Replies
4
Views
2K
Mikelb01
M
M
Speedo not working after installing XC start button on my 2018 EC300?
Replies
0
Views
2K
Mikelb01
M
Back
Top