45mm Zoke performance

[toolmaker]

I went out last weekend for the first ride on my 11 250 with the zoke-Ohlins suspension. The shock seems to be OK. Nothing special, but works as well as the shock on my 300 KTM. The front is another story. These are the worst performing forks I have ridden on in 25 years. I'm not posting on here to bag on GG in any way at all. I am just being honest and looking for advice on what to do to make them ride able.

The problem seems to be that they blow right through the stroke on compression and then feel really harsh. Rebound seems to be nonexistent. The front wheel won't stick to the ground for accurate steering in the tight woods I ride. I'm sawing the bars back and forth all the time to maintain control because the wheel is skipping off the ground.

I'm a 200lbs "A" level enduro rider riding mostly tight woods. I replaced the springs with .45s before I rode the bike. I've turned clickers with not a lot of improvement. Any insight for a cure would be welcomed.

 

[gasgasman]

I rode my 2011 Six Days 250 today for the first time.
I thought my 45mm forks actually worked better than the 50mm forks on my 2007 bike.
My rebound is set at 16 clicks out and the compression is at 18 clicks out.

 

[moto9]

It took me about 6 months to get the forks working good.

This is what I think,
1) sprung too soft
2) valved to stiff on the base valve
3) valved to light on the rebound
4) mid valve is too stiff and depending on the type of riding needs the float re-set.
5) oil level too high.

There is nothing that can be done with the clickers, it's either live with the ride (which would be a shame) or spend the $$ for a proper respring and valving.

 

[GMP]

Do a search, much info here.

 

[mrkartoom]

I've heard from many that the Zokes really need time to be broken in before you know what you've got. Based on that I wouldn't do any major changes to them until then.

The zokes on my Husky lived up to that, but I still had to send them off. They had different issues, but were really bad.

 

[BrentMartell]

Yeppers, worst forks I have ever ridden. GMP said there is a lot of info, and there is now. I have about 700 miles on this bike now and am still chasing down issues, however, they are much closer to what I expect or like. I think with 1 more re-shim of the rebound stack I will have control of the rebound dampening. These forks don't have a mid valve stack, just a blow off valve, and a stack has now been added. I think if a person was riding super slow tight woods and their speed was not all that high they could live with the forks in stock form. However, my pistons were not drilled out properly and that caused a lot of my initial problems.

I am not sure what I am going to do with the shock yet. Initially the forks sucked so bad the shock was good. However, I have the forks working well enough that the shock is starting to indicate I need to make improvements. I rode 3 KTM's and a Honda back to back with the my GG this weekend while testing. All of the bikes shocks felt better than my ohlins. The forks are close.

 

[Robby45]

I just got my forks back from my suspention guy. He said (and I'll be showing my ignorance here in translation) that they are set up like old school motoocross forks that relied on orifice damping. He machined some holes in the spring seat and made some type of new part that replaced the black cylinder(?) in the forks, modified the compression stack and set the oil level at 130mm. Stock springs were okay for me at 178 lbs.

Beforehand, I wasn't using the last 3" of travel and thought the fork was very plush at the top of the stoke and way harsh towards the bottom.

After getting them back I am using most all the travel and they feel much more balanced across different terrain. They don't try to tuck as much under hard braking. I'd call it a 50% improvement over stock. Need to ride it more to see if any more tuning is needed. I've pretty happy with them for now after the changes.

 

[stemplin]

Robby45, who'd you use for your suspension work?

 

[GMP]

Sounds like he worked on the bottoming cone. Funny, I never thought that was a big deal. I think its more straight forward than that, at least mine and others have responded that way. Too soft a spring with too much preload, too much compression bleed (too little LS comp), too much high speed comp, no midvalve, and WAY too little rebound make the fork feel like it does. I use all of my travel on the biggest hits like you should, but my fork stays up in the travel much better now, and has no bad habits.

 

[roostafish]

Check out LTR. He does very good work at a very reasonable cost. The forks are high quality, but Marzocchi sends them out valved for the criminally insane.

 

[Robby45]

Robby45, who'd you use for your suspension work?

Phillip Graham at SoPro Suspension.

 

[ScottyR]

Enduro Engineering Suspension did the fork and shock on my 250 and it works great.

 

[GMP]

Mine had to be re-anodized, and I'm real anal about the clamps and alignment. Love the action with proper setup but not impressed with the durability. I hope the 48s are better in this respect.

 

[widebear]

Brent. You and I should'nt be so negative! on the possitive side ,lack of quality components make those forks weigh much less than the competitions.

 

[BrentMartell]

LMAO. Well, they are .5 lbs lighter than my WP's. My 11 GG 300 EC weighs 256's with 1 gallon of gas in it and Shoria battery. So 255 is a safe bet. I wonder if they put lead panels inside the frame?

OK, I will stop being negative. My only two complaints about this bike have been the forks and the e start. It works 25% of the time. Coming from KTM recently, I did have Honda's, Kawasaki's, and Yamaha's too, this bike is hard to work on. KTM's are so freaking easy. Oh well, the handling, motor, and tranny, are sweet. There, I mentioned some positive! Yay.

 

[mrkartoom]

LMAO. Yes, yes indeed. They are low low low quality compared to what is stock on most bikes today. I am not brand loyal to KTM but the quality of a WP is far superior to this crap. Pathetic valving specs, specs that are not used by any other fork manfacturer, and of course the fact several have come with QC issue's that should have been addressed at the factory.

OK, dead horse is beat to death again. I have 700ish miles and the fake coating is still intact on the forks for now. I pray it stays on.

I do think once I get the rebound dampening issue solved the forks are going to be good.

The more I read about these forks the more I understand why the people I talked to pushed me towards a Sachs-equipped model. They didn't say low quality but used the term "basic". I'm sure the Sachs units have issues as well, but you guys are making me feel better about the decision.

 

[BrentMartell]

The more I read about these forks the more I understand why the people I talked to pushed me towards a Sachs-equipped model. They didn't say low quality but used the term "basic". I'm sure the Sachs units have issues as well, but you guys are making me feel better about the decision.

I wish I could have swung a leg over a couple differently equipped bikes. Honestly a stock suspension usually doesn't work well for me anyway so a revalve is expected, however this set up is overly surprising. It is a basic open chamber fork with base quality components. It can be worked over and will likely be fine.

I tell people, who ask, to buy the GG and see how the forks work for them. I explain that they may need springs and a revalve but it should NOT be something that prevents them from giving this bike a shot. All BS aside I am glad I did it and have some experience now with GG. It opened me up to bikes outside the KTM regime. If you have a suspension guy with experience in Marzocchi forks you will be fine. They are super simple to work on and should not be expensive to re-shim etc.

 

[roostafish]

Hi quality? I wouldnt call a modern fork that does'nt use Kashima coating on the internals high quality, maybee high quality in a 1975 Fiat kind of way.These forks are no differant than 1989 honda cr usd's You should have seen the handiwork by Guido and Co on the piston stud, must of had a full bottle of grappa on his two hour lunch break, inexcusable excuse for alleged workmanship! Can you tell how impressed I am?

Gee, that's too bad. I would still call them high quality pieces. The valving has nothing to do with quality of craftsmenship. The hard coating on my fork sliders is still in good shape. My forks have been to LTR after they had about 2000 miles on them, and no internal parts were worn or in need of replacement other than shims for a revalve request. My bike is easily upwards of 3000 miles now, and the forks do not show signs of looseness, leaking, or flaking of coatings. While I did not inspect the internals when the forks were disassembled, I'd say they are good. After Les' rebuild of them, I'd say they outperform the Ohlins I had on my previous Gas Gas, and that fork was pretty good. I also am an A enduro rider, and ride in sloppy conditions, so it's not like the forks live the life of a garage/parking lot queen. Of course, KTM and Gas Gas riders do tend to know how to ride, and ride a lot. I digress, but just an observation.

 

[toolmaker]

Well, I certainly didn't expect to stir up so many people with my original post.

I'm new to Gas Gas bikes but have raced off road for more than 40 years. Although now older (64) and admittedly slower than I used to be I still retain the ability to evaluate suspension performance accurately. These are not state of the art forks, but.... they should be able to be reworked by a knowledgeable suspension guy to work better.

Thanks to all the people who pointed out what the internals consist of. I didn't have a clue what was in there. All I did was pop off the cap, put in heavier springs and button it back up. Sounds like basic valving stacks etc.

I'm going to have Matt Stavish at Checkpoint Offroad in Scandia, Minnesota work on my forks. I've known Matt for several years from the races we both went to. You may remember Matt as a former factory Gas Gas rider and ISDE guy. He told me he had experience reworking zoke forks and could make them better.

 

[GMP]

There are thousands of these forks in service on GGs, Huskys, and others. They work awesome in the woods when set up right. I think Brent, being a fast desert guy, is a little out of the box as far as the bikes scope with regard to OEM setup. I completely understand this as its not setup as a desert bike, and no doubt a stiffer CC fork (perhaps the new 48s?) would be much closer. However, for the average to even fast woods rider these are very ridable stock and eaisly tuned.